Talk:Spanish-based creole languages
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
[edit]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 September 2021 and 31 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SpooksSkeleton.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Untitled
[edit]Mention Papiamento, Chamorro and Palenque. -- Error 02:27, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Yes. thank you. Optim 04:31, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Temporary Content
[edit]On 24 November 2003, Wikipedia user Sayeya added the following content in an article titled Creole from Spanish or Machaco language:
it is a language that is been from the bad form to speak and to write the Castilian language of the Real Academy of the Spanish Language, and which has regional contributions that are creation of the people of the different departments that conform to Colombia. it is simply the Creole form to speak to the español.pero difference in his ortografia and gramatica in many subjects, although also in others it is resembled, not so single to the Spanish, but to Gallego(but this similarity is accidental, since as lejania geografica between both languages is obvious is much, but in which another word exists the similarity ) and the Colombian indigenas languages from which it takes many but words from which normally it takes the Spanish from the Real Academy of the Spanish Language, at the present time the dialectos have a dictionary of dialectologias elaborated by the expensive institute and crow of Colombia that condenses it in 6 great and fat volumes affluent.
Now (Feb-2004) the text above is moved to Talk:Spanish Creole/Creole from Spanish or Machaco language and acts as a redirect to Spanish Creole. The reason for the move was the proposed deletion of the Creole from Spanish or Machaco language article and the desired preservation of its page history by Optim.
On December 22, 2003, user TUF-KAT voted to delete the page because it was nonsense.
Soon after the page listed in Votes for Deletion, user Optim rewrote the text above in proper English. Because of not enough free time, he was based only on information given in the original nonsense text (see above). Optim's text is as follows:
Creole from Spanish or Machaco language is a language originated from a merge of the Castilian (Spanish) language of the Real Academy of the Spanish Language and various linguistic elements from Colombia. It is simply the Creole form of Spanish. There are differences in the spelling (orthography) and grammar and it's also similar to Galician (Gallego) in some manner. But this similarity is accidental. It has many elements from the indigenous Colombian languages. Currently Spanish Creole has a dictionary published in Colombia (?) in six volumes (?).
User Optim theorized that Machaco is either the name of this Creole language or the name of some native Colombians. After some search on the web, user Optim found nothing useful about Machako (also tried with alternative spellings). User Optim thought that Machaco may be a Spanish word, so he used AltaVista's Babel Fish Translation Service and found that the Spanish word Machaco means "I crush" in English. Optim asked JorgeGG on #wikipedia and got the answer "(Machako) from machacar (verb) to crush, make dust, to insist in something. Yo machaco, tu machacas, el machaca, nosotros machacamos, vosotros machacais, ellos machacan. present tense".
On December 23, 2003, Optim decided to move the information here, so he created the article Spanish Creole.
At User_talk:Sayeya Optim found this message regarding user Sayeya: This user is a native Spanish speaker and can't speak English at all. His contributions consist mainly of crude translations from the Spanish Wikipedia (mostly of articles he wrote) using the on-line translator at http://babel.altavista.com, and therefore should be kept an eye on. Pilaf 23:29, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC).
User Optim tried to find whether a Colombian Spanish Creole exists but with no results yet. He is still trying. User Optim, thanks to a contribution by User:Rlvaughn found info about an English-based Colombian Creole: [1]. But this has nothing to do with Spanish Creole.
User Optim suggests to delete this Temporary Information as fictional, since Ethnologue contains no information about Spanish based Creole in Colombia except what is listed in this page (Palenque). User Optim is trying to understand whether the information refers to Palenque, but it seems that this is not the case and the machako-thing is something different.
This user is almost banned from the spanish wikipedia and according to what other wikipedians say, he tried to create a Machako wiki in Meta-wiki. According to other wikipedians, User Sayeya is nicknamed as HeKeIsDa in the spanish and french wikipedia. In french wikipedia he tried to create a valid article named Bambuco (folkloric Colombian music) but he used automated translation. Other wikipedians fixed his translation. See [2]
But user Optim doubts whether Machuko is a valid article. If somebody knows about any Spanich creole as descibed in Sayeya's text please write details here.
Please answer to the talk page of this article. What should we do about Machako?
Optim 04:31, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
post your messages here:
From VFD:
[edit]- Creole from Spanish or Machaco language -- ostensibly English, but I can't understand a word. Has something to do with Spanish dialects. Tuf-Kat 04:42, Dec 22, 2003 (UTC)
- The article is awful but I suggest to keep it. Maybe Spanish Creole would be a better title. Someone MUST perform a rewrite ASAP (well if I have time, I will do it, but I cannot say for sure). Some links from google, I dont know if all of them are relevant but may be useful to somebody who is going to rewrite the article: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13]. Peace Profound. Optim 05:11, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- btw I can understand the main notion of the article. Well I will perform a small rewrite now just to make sure it's proper English, but I dont have time to do research on the web, I will just read and rewrite what the article says in better English. Somebody else plz fix it and make it better. Optim 05:17, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Great work! I change my vote to keep, and move to Spanish Creole or other more appropriate title. Tuf-Kat
- Keep it. Although I can not understand papa about the dictionary text in the article, the subject is interesting and I myself, a Spanish speaker all my 31 years of life, did not know this existed in Colombia. But it needs work, perhaps someone who knows about the subject can help? Antonio Falcon Martin
- Keep and list on cleanup or pages needing attention. Bmills 12:56, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Redirected to Spanish Creole. Optim 03:14, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Please have a look at Talk:Spanish Creole and let's take a decision on what to do with this machako thing. Should we add this info in Spanish Creole? Obviously Machako does not need to be a separate article. Optim 04:43, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Keep. If this is ever finished - it will be fascinating. Davodd 07:26, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)
Español de cocina
[edit]Is español de cocina the same as Chabacano?-- Error 00:15, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Are you sure that Tagalog is the most spoken indigenous language in the Philippines? It wasn't after the independence. -- Error 03:09, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Tagalog *is*, meaning currently, the most widely spoken indegenous language in the Philippines. It doesn't mean that Tagalog is also the most widely-spoken language during the Spanish period. Cebuano was probably more widely spoken during that time. --seav 17:39, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
iramnu
[edit]I noticed that on the list of Quechua Hispanicisms. Is it a typo for "irmanu"? —JerryFriedman 20:24, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Macaense chapado
[edit]Are you sure that Macaense has ever had a Spanish substrate? Where? --Error 04:12, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- who wrote that? *OMG* -Pedro 00:26, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I removed it from the article and correct was the rest. In the case of Papiamento, there could be debate over if it if a Portuguese Creole or an Iberian Creole has ethnologue says. One way or the other, it should be putted under Portuguese Creole or Iberian Creole, not has Spanish Creole. A mild language influence does not mean that it is also a creole of that language, and if it is, it should be superstrate. The substract of Macaense is Malay and Chinese. The superstrate is Portuguese. If there is a Spanish word or two doesnt mean it is Spanish or Spanish-influence (which I find very suspicious, and very improbable), Japanese and English are more likely, but Spanish (from the Philipines?!?) --Pedro 01:04, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Please educate yourself Pedro, Spanish is more wide-spoken in the Philippines than you would realize, there is an immense amount of literature written by Filipinos in Spanish, since it was their first language. Just because a country is in Asia, or doesn't fit your narrow-minded stereotypes of the world doesn't mean that it can't have influences that you might not expect. And besides, you just made yourself look like a fool, because any Spanish speaker knows that the Philippines is a Spanish colony, so it makes perfect sense that the Spanish language is prevalent there, in creole and pure forms. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.33.2.183 (talk) 05:14, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
Other Spanish-influenced languages
[edit]I think that it would be nice to make an other section for other languages (that are not creoles) very influenced by Spanish such as Chamorro, Quechua, Taglog and other Phillippine languages, like in the Spanish Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.16.159.13 (talk) 19:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC).
Nigerian Pidgin
[edit]I removed the following unreferenced section:
- Nigerian Pidgin is a creole language spoken in Nigeria, based on English. The Spanish influence can be seen, as Spanish slave ships traded off the coast of Nigeria. One example is the Nigerian word "sabi", which means "to know", which comes from the Portuguese and Spanish words "saber", which have the same meaning.
A Portuguese influence is much more probable than a Spanish one. Please provide references and non-Portuguese examples. --Error (talk) 02:08, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Papiamentu's Base Language Is Still Disputed
[edit]According to linguist Bart Jacob:
"Ever since Lenz’ (1928) pioneering description of [Papiamentu], its mixed Spanish-Portuguese vocabulary has provoked heavy debate. Lenz’ plea for [Papiamentu]’s Afro-Portuguese origins (“Su gramática … es ‘negro-portuguesa’ en primer lugar”...) received support from prominent scholars such as Navarro Tomás (1953), Van Wijk (1958), Valkhoff (1966) and Voorhoeve (1973), but linguists defending [Papiamentu]’s Spanish roots (e.g., Maduro 1965, 1966, 1969, DeBose 1975 or Rona 1976) have been similarly numerous. That the debate is far from settled is noted by Lipski...who asserts that up to present “scholars are … evenly divided as to the Spanish vs. Portuguese origins of Papiamento" ("The Upper Guinea Origins of Papiamentu: Linguistic and Historical Evidence", Diachronica 26 [2009], pg. 320)
For his part, Jacobs does think, Papiamentu stems from a Portuguese-based creole spoken in West Africa. But, . . . that is his thesis.
The experts -- as he himself admits above -- are still divided 50-50, however. This entry, therefore, should not be stating the Portuguese-origin theory as if it were fact. There is an argument, accepted by many linguists, that Papiamentu is indeed a Spanish-based creole.Mwidunn (talk) 19:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)