Talk:Eternal Champion

Ulrich von Bek was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 February 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Eternal Champion. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

I asked a Moorcock collaborator Walter Simonson to find out if John Daker was a thin anagram for John Drake. Michael Moorcock answered no. Nor did he ghost any Danger Man books as I had thought. - Sparky

Is the hole Eternal Champion Framework considered as high or low Fantasy? 80.245.147.81 14:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Incarnations

Is Gaynor the Damned really an incarnation of the Eternal Champion?He appears as a villain in the Swords Trilogy.And where is Roland called an Eternal Champion?Oh,and who are these guys:Conrad Arflane ,Rackhir the Red Archer,Sojan the Swordsman,Oswald Bastable?Dimts 15:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Konrad Arflane was the EC in The Ice Schooner, a novel that is included in Sailing to Utopia (vol. 8 in the U.S. omnibus edition of the Eternal Champion series), Rackhir is a companion of Elric and also appears as the protaganist of "To Rescue Tanelorn" (and he is listed in one [or more] of the lists at various points of the series when the EC is recalling previous incarnations), Sojan featured in a number of short stories and is listed in Phoenix in Obsidian when Erekosë is dreaming of previous incarnations, and Oswald Bastable is the EC of the A Nomad of the Time Streams trilogy. 76.199.144.35 (talk) 22:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Gaynor, yes. He admits to it one one occasion (do not have books to hand, have just moved house) and his is one of the faces other Champions have seen when they see their avatars throughout the multiverse. He was simply a Champion who elected to serve Chaos, and never turned away from it. Which may have meant that, just as Companions can evolve into Champions, a Champion can devolve into a mere Player on the cosmic gameboard. -- Simon Cursitor

A List of the Incarnations of the Eternal Champion can be found at [1] 80.193.82.162 12:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Further re Gaynor: Having found my books, the incident occurs when Gaynor is acting as agent for Xiombarg Queen of Swords: to dispel him, Corum must remove his mirriored helm. In doing so, he sees most or all of Gaynor's prior existences (when killed, Gaynor's curse is to be transmigrated to another plane, to continue serving Chaos), including his own face. This would mean that Gaynor is the Champion, but is one who has been cursed never to serve other than Chaos (and therefore never to know the peace which the Cosmic Balance can offer) -- Simon Cursitor (talk) 12:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not totally up to speed with Moorcock's mythology, but does that mean that the statement in the article that the Eternal Champion can't reject his destiny, which currently has a "citation needed" tag, is definitely wrong?

(BTW, I've assumed the recent addition of "Jeremy Clarkson" to the characters with Jerry Cornelius type names isn't a weird coincidence in a Moorcock book I've not read, but vandalism, and removed it. If I'm wrong, put it back) Daibhid C (talk) 14:38, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that the Doctor from tv show "Doctor Who" is listed as an incarnation - is there a quote for this? Wind Walker (talk) 21:38, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As of this date, much of the above no longer matches the article as currently edited. See, however, at [2]: "we also don't appear to have any references for:

"Vaughn Marquis

"Sam Bennetts

"Robert Elliott Jones

"Paul de phalandra

"Daniel Patrick Lanman" (that last was what sent me hunting) and Moorcock's own statement

"If they're unfamiliar to me, they generally have their origins in game scenarios!" GeorgeTSLC (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

J & C Characters

I recall (when I was reading a lot of Moorcock way back when), having the suspicion that all the "JC" in all those "JC"-named characters was a play on "Jesus Christ" (with the possible blasphemous inference that Christ himself was an incarnation of the champion), and had some kind of a link to the story in "Behold the Man". At present that is nothing more than my suspicion and would be original research to include, but I wonder if anyone else might recall Moorcock admitting to such a thing.Ekwos (talk) 00:18, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is Finn the Human a reincarnation of the Eternal Champion????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.50.132.76 (talk) 18:24, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: Development?

Is there any information about the development of this concept by Moorcock? It's presented here a fully formed concept, as if it was something he thought out before he first put pen to paper (or fingers to keys, as the case may be), but I suspect it was more of a wouldn't-it-be-cool afterthought as he worked on the various books. Either way, it's gotta be something he's been asked about, so there's presumably some information out there about it. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 21:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Uncited Incarnations

There are quite a few mentioned Incarnations which don't have cited stories or novels. Some of them seem to be from fan wikis. Others seem to just be random names added by trolls. If those of you know Moorcock's work better than I do could add something about which stories those alleged incarnations are from, that would be very helpful. Michael Kinyon (talk) 03:01, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]