Talk:Acorn

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 4 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Itrauger.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Misleading?

O.K. so i see what this article is doing and it does a great job. EXCEPT on the part about leaching the acorns. I just want to point out that this is not the full method and if you tried to survive solely on this you would die. On the other hand, many Indian groups are recorded as surviving almost solely on some of the most bitter acorns (red) made into cakes. I think it is misleading to present this as the full method when clay (or some other agent?) to bind the tannin was probably used AFTER the soaking process to complete the recipe. If anyone know the "real" or full process please come forward. Is adding clay the only other step? What kind of clay and when. Thank you. -- Zer0Cool 01:34, 03 Sept 2010 (UTC)

The main page of this article suggests roasting acorns to make them edible. Is this possible? Does roasting have an effect on tannin? Does it make acorns taste less bitter? Or are the acorns still bitter after roasting, but at least the nutrients are more easily digested? 216.99.198.130 (talk) 07:39, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps lye? -- Zer0Cool 10:55, 24 Sept 2010 (UTC)

missing acorns in N.American in 2008

Should there be a section about the recent observation about the lack of acorns in some areas of N. America? apparently 20 different species eg http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27977375/ or http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2008/11/30/Botanists_puzzle_over_lack_of_acorns/UPI-26751228066732/

dis or no?

Hi Jim - someone moved acorn to acorn (seed) and then made a disambig page out of acorn, including 3 other items which have acorn as part of their name (but not their full name). As all of the links pointing at acorn referred to oak seeds, not any of the other items, I've moved the disambig content to a new page acorn (disambiguation), but the wiki software only allows an admin person to move acorn (seed) back to acorn - could you do so, please? (also posting this to one or two other admin folk as well, in case you're not around at the moment) Thanks - MPF 09:27, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Many thanks! - MPF 09:58, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting the Acorn page and the disambig. MPF wasn't quite correct there are a number of links to the seed that actually refer to the computer, but I should be able to correct those by hand. Sorry to you and MPF for any inconvience. -- LegCircus

Would it not be better for all inquiries to "Acorn" go to the disambiguation, and people specify from the disambiguation? If not, please explain why. -- LegCircus

If articles are of equal status, eg US towns sharing the same name, a disambiguation page titled with that name would be appropriate. If one use is clearly more important than the others, eg Paris France, then that holds the name, while all the other uses of Paris go on the disambiguation page. Another example is Penguin.

It is my view that the large majority of people searchinging for acorn will be expecting the seed of the oak tree, so that should be the direct link, with other uses on the disamb page. It also avoids having to change so many links. Jim

---

Thank you for your reply.

Google returns ACORN the community organization as being more requested than infomation on acorns, as is the computer company. To justify bypassing the nut you'd have to believe the nut by itself accounts for over half of requests for acorn. I would have trouble believing this. By using the disambiguation all topics are equal, whereas refering straight to the nut may causes people unfamiliar with disambig to perhaps think what they are looking for isn't there, or too difficult to find. --LegCircus 05:43, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

I think my Beatle beats your Penguin. --LegCircus 05:47, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

I've never heard of ACORN, and if it's normally capitalised, that distinguishes it anyway. As I indicated, and I think you agree, some articles are more equal than others, so the question is whether this is the case for acorn. Jim

---

I think that (all meanings of acorn other than the nut) > (acorn the nut). As far as ACORN is concerned, you've probably heard of predatory lending and living wage. The campaigns associated with these terms were started by ACORN.

Additionally, more people are familiar with Homer as a cartoon character (father of Bart) than with the blind guy. You see where I'm going with this...

LegCircus

Hi Leg - of the 50 or so links pointing at acorn, all but two referred to oak seeds, various oak species pages, animals that eat acorns, etc, etc. And as Jim points out, it makes far more sense to leave all these as they are. When you'd been changing them to acorn (seed), you'd only picked up about a quarter of them, leaving most still pointed at your disambig page. If I was looking for the computer in a search, I'd not look for "acorn", I'd look for "acorn computer". And for those who do look under acorn, the disambig page is clearly posted; that is the normal proceedure for Wikipedia, as witness the {{alternateuses}} way of directing automatically to a disambig page (this wouldn't work your way round). - MPF 14:27, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I had not finished yet, I was working on it.

Just because you would search for "acorn computer" or "acorn community organiztion" doesn't mean everyone should have to.

However, I will yield if you and Jim will allow the convention apple embodies.

--LegCircus 20:36, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

I've no problem with an expanded disambig sentence like the one at apple, if that's what you're meaning - MPF 23:45, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

resolved

Then I believe the issue is resolved.

--LegCircus 15:44, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)

I added more recent nutritional and ecological information. Nan Hannon 01:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

ACORN SEED GERMINATION

Nearby where I work stood a very large tall Oak tree. Majestic. Today I discovered it was being cut down. Why? I am clueless. There were at least 7 workers to remove this Oak tree. As I watched it come down, acorns were being strewn all over the place. I collected a few that fell my way. How can I get them to grow or germinate to one day become a tree again? I hope someone out there can answer this question. Thanks

Hi , are you still looking for info? I have grown some oaks from acorns (acorns planted 4 years ago, the resulting oak tree shoots are now strong, and about 3 feet tall ). Date when you wrote query was not specific, so don't know if you still need info.

Veduny 22:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'd like to plant some acorns and I'm totally clueless - you said you've planted some - please let me know how I can do this. I'd be most grateful. Thank you41.9.122.206 (talk) 17:16, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Added to project

WP:IPNA

Native Americans eating them

Doesn't that seem kind of unrealistic, despite being true? I mean, what, a group of them has acorns for lunch, they all die, so one of the dudes that didn't have any tries boiling them, despite the relative difficulty in procuring water, fire, and a vessel; and this time only half the people that eat them die.. so they boil them twice, etc etc... until finally they've hit upon a safe food? What kind of people would even try a poisonous food a second time?

The citation seems lacking on that part too. I don't necessarily DISbelieve it, so I'm not going to get uppity & take it off, but the citation's badly done at best and nonexistent at worst.70.61.22.110 19:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)Ubiquitousnewt

What sort of people try a poisonous food a second time? Hungry people, that's who. This sort of trial and error process is exactly how hunter gatherers have always found out what foods can be eaten, everywhere in the world. Bear in mind the accumulation of this knowledge would have taken a long time, and taken place over a wide area - the people in one place hear that someone in the next valley tried eating acorns in one particular way that got certain results, or that their grandparents tried eating them in another way and got different results; etc etc; until they gradually build up a picture of what methods work and what ones don't. --86.144.101.134 13:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

But it has to start somewhere. Where can it start if everyone who ate it died? Who's stupid/hungry/brilliant enough to give it another try? Europeans were scared to even TRY tomatoes and potatoes because they RESEMBLED a poisonous plant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 02:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

So many foods out there can be poisonous if not prepared correctly. Off the top of my head, cassava (yucca) and ackees. How they figured out how to adequately prepare them is a mystery lost in time. Though in just 5 minutes here pondering the issue, I think one way they could've found out is by having a guinea pig eat them (i.e. pet dogs, monkeys, other animals that normally can't eat acorns, including captured war prisoners). There were no ethics in experimentation back then... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.85.211 (talk) 07:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC) BTW I learned about the California Ohlone method of preparing acorn in school... we once made acorn bread in 1st grade, and I remember it being delicious. Al

I think they probably didnt just go eating a whole lot of some food as soon as they found out they could. They probably incorporated these things into their diet slowly, and did not simply remove them once they found they could be toxic in volume, they probably cutback on consumption, and eventually found a way to prepare them so that they could consume more without causing their own death. In the case of acorns, the toxic component, tannic acid tastes like crap, so they more than likely tried removing it before anyone ever died of tannic acid poisoning. Thats another wonderful part of being the product of millions of years of primate evolution, allot of plant chemicals that are toxic in moderate dosages, taste like crap to us. Modern survivalism wouldnt tolerate any bitter taste in a questionable food source... but if you are hungry enough, and it doesnt kill you immediately, i can see a good reason to persist in eating it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.46.106 (talk) 21:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, how did Europeans then find out what mushrooms are good to eat if they'd never touch mushrooms again after the first one who had mixed toadstool casserole passed away. As far as leaching to get the tannic acid out goes, I bet the first ones who started the idea just came across some acorns that had fallen into a stream, or collected acorns after a prolonged period of rain. As far as poisonous foods go I'd say you had better not look too closely at what you eat. (Particularly not at your spice cabinet.) Giving up eating is very detrimental to health, though. ... and acorn bread with berries in it is just plain yummy, that's why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.23.111 (talk) 16:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

all omnivorous animals use the technique of only eating a small quantity of a novel food and no other novelties the same day. If it causes vomiting, they never touch that food again. However, I have a different but releated query about this page. Why do the guardians of England's New Forest ensure that pigs eat all the acorn harvest so that the wild horses & ponies do not poison themselves? Are horses particularly susceptible to tannin? And particularly stupid? Mikemaisontaylor (talk) 12:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

See discussion below on food source NittyG (talk) 19:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Dispersal - Cause or Effect?

In the text it says "Acorns, being too heavy to blow in wind, do not fall far from the tree at maturity. Because of this, oaks depend on seed dispersal agents to move the acorns beyond the canopy of the mother tree". Yet I'm wondering, maybe they evolved to be heavy (i.e. chock full of nutrition value) in order to recruit squirrels and birds to disperse the seed? If they were on the thin and fluffy side, what self-respecting scrub jay would want to hoard that? The wording in the article seems to imply the thought that acorns are heavy for no good reason and luckily jays and squirrels are there to help, when IMO their bulkiness reflects and is crucial to the oaks' seed dispersal method of choice. Al

Wow, I didn't know the "chicken or egg" story had an acorn twist. Such developments are usually synergistic. Small oak makes small acorns, some fall far enough out, or get washed away in the rain to make new oaks. Of those some bigger and stronger ones survive, the bigger oaks need surviving sprouts to be farther out. Enter birds and squirrels that get hungry and starts eating acorns. Other birds and squirrels want what they are eating, a fight ensues and the acorn gets dropped far enough from the tree to make a new tree. Then the animal found a bigger acorn. Big acorn survives and makes new oak-tree etc. (And this story is probably already missing a couple of thousand years.) From what I read, no two acorns are exactly alike. There's a constant ongoing experiment of genetic variation on a major theme going on. Each year a whole oakt-ree full of slightly different acorns enter the race and rot or get eaten. Of those that sprout most will get eaten by pests and herbivores, unless they are really unpalatable and contain just the right chemicals to protect them from the bugs. While the "thin and fluffy" oak version doesn't seem to be a major streak, I'd not rule it out yet. Just, would we still call the tree that results an oak? High tannic acid concentration was probably not in the original design plan either, but proved successful. Saying that they evolved to be heavy to attract squirrels would sound as though the tree were looking around and saying "Hey who could I get to disperse my seeds and what type of fruit would they want?" That's just as misleading, if not more so. Lisa4edit--71.236.23.111 (talk) 17:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Melting point?

I recently heard someone was doing research into the melting point of acorns perhaps if a relevant article can be cited we should add this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.199.233 (talk) 04:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Acorn shortage

There seems to be an acorn shortage. Is that worth mentioning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.31.166.130 (talk) 21:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Food Source

I see that there was a discussion about this, but no content came out of it. There are many cultures that ate acorns by boiling out the tannins and eating the nuts or grinding them into flour. This would be a very important part of the article, as well as the article on the oak tree (also being discussed there). Here are some links to start with. They are not sourced... I will come back soon and add to this article if no one else does. Just wanted to get the ball rolling.

A place to start: [1]

How it works: [2]

NittyG (talk) 19:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Does anybody know if dry-roasted acorns, subsequently soaked in water, leach out tannin more easily than unroasted acorns? 216.99.198.130 (talk) 07:47, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Has anybody actually tried this? It sounds like it would be easy to do. In any case, can't baking soda be added to mashed chestnut, and then subsequently washed out? 216.99.219.136 (talk) 10:48, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

My highly limited knowledge in this area is that the un-prepared, as in, pick up off the ground, remove the kernel, and munch, edibility of acorns depends on the type of oak it comes from. I think the acorns from red oaks are bitter, while those from white oaks are quite palatable; peanutty, even. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CF99:2080:24A7:16CB:32DE:D358 (talk) 17:16, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Cross-section

Wouldn't a cross-section be very beneficial? Does anyone have a fair-use diagram/photo or do I have to open an acorn myself? 75.118.170.35 (talk) 22:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I have one, but I won't upload it. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 01:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Toxicity section?

Doesn't there need to be a section on the toxicity of the concentrated tannins in acorns? Reading this article it looks like you would be fine just munching away at them, if you didn't mind the bitter taste. There should be a warning that the tannins need to be boiled away before eating. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.145.251.34 (talk) 18:55, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the article speaks of "acorn-leaching" and has this language, "acorns were harvested, peeled and soaked in natural or artificial ponds for several days to remove tannins, then processed to make acorn cakes", but it is not clear whether acorns can be eaten, why they can't be eaten, or how to prepare them if they are to be eaten. [http://askville.amazon.com/acorns-edible/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=17756711 Here] is information from an unreliable source. Tannin is bitter, which is why casual eating of acorns doesn't not work out well, whether they are poisonous, I guess I'd have to look that up in Wikipedia. Turns out that even mice sometimes die of tannin poisoning. User:Fred Bauder Talk 15:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The language "tannins need to be boiled away before eating" is unfortunate, tannins need to be leached out by grinding then soaking in hot water, then discarding the water. Boiling would not reduce the concentration of tannin which would not boil away, but remain behind. User:Fred Bauder Talk 15:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Acorn Coffee

Is Acorn Coffee worth a mention? I had a look but couldn't see any mention of it. 03jkeeley (talk) 13:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Cotradiction regarding horses

In the section on acorns "as widlife forage" it is stated that "acorns are toxic to some other animals, such as horses." Yet further down there is a picture of ponies eating acorns. Could someone verify either that acorns are indeed toxic to horses, or that horses have been known to eat them? William Collen (talk) 11:25, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Acorn In Literature

J. M. Barrie's Peter Pan deserves to be mentioned in the Cultural Relevance section.

In the book, the following exchange takes place between Wendy and Peter:

...She also said she would give him a kiss if he liked, but Peter did not know what she meant, and he held out his hand expectantly.

"Surely you know what a kiss is?" she asked, aghast.

"I shall know when you give it to me," he replied stiffly, and not to hurt his feeling she gave him a thimble.

"Now," said he, "shall I give you a kiss?" and she replied with a slight primness, "If you please." She made herself rather cheap by inclining her face toward him, but he merely dropped an acorn button into her hand, so she slowly returned her face to where it had been before, and said nicely that she would wear his kiss on the chain around her neck. It was lucky that she did put it on that chain, for it was afterwards to save her life...

I believe the acorn "button" here, refers to the cupule of the acorn only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neildorgan (talk • contribs) 17:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

LEACHING

What is leaching. Probably a common term but I don't know how it applies to acorns. I guess I should say, it makes sense when applied to acorn flour, but I'm not sure if leaching works or is best done while in the shell or outside the shell. I found the toilet method very interesting and actually clean if you understand the parts of a toliet with clean water verses dirty water.

As Food

I trimmed the "As Food" subsection (mostly of how-to advice, for example: "Leaching acorn meal or flour requires a cloth bag or other filter." is miseleading (I leach my acorns in a jar of water, which is periodically decanted and refilled, without the use of a filter), unnecesary, and the 'reference' is itself unreferenced how-to advice), among other things. It could still use a cite or two (a quick google search reveals lots of information on the topic, but most is from unreliable sources), as could the "Use and management by Native Americans" section. 71.234.211.99 (talk) 00:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Please ad - Filter is bowdlerizing me

The German tern Ersatzkaffee is correct, though the much more common term is Muckefuck. I'm aware that English speakers might find this strange. If you doubt it, please check the German Wikipedia article http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muckefuck for confirmation. Please ad the word next to Ersatzkaffee, the system is preventing me from doing it. The edit filter/false positive page doesn't seems to work. 84.152.19.226 (talk) 11:57, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Squirrel picture

Question: does this photo show an acorn or a walnut? Dlazerka considers it to be a walnut; I'm not sure. The nut has clear grooves in it, but in my opinion, they're not as deep as the grooves in a walnut. I could be wrong. — Eru·tuon 03:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Dlazerka here. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's walnut, like this one. More exactly, half of a walnut nut (with shell). Dzmitry (talk) 04:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I see what you mean. The two look similar, maybe exactly alike. I was thinking of the meat of the walnut, like this, which is clearly different. The squirrel picture clearly doesn't show an acorn husk, but I don't remember what the meat looks like. — Eru·tuon 04:55, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Walnut meat

Does what native Americans in California did with Acorns qualify as domestication?

I mean, they apparently deliberately manipulated nature (by burning stuff down) to produce a desired product (acorns) in quantities large enough to store for more than one year. The only thing they apparently did not do (as far as we know) is selective breeding for desired results... Which btw would be an interesting task... Acorns without tannins...23:27, 9 December 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hobbitschuster (talk • contribs)

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The name Acorn

If in truth the seed is an Oak seed and called thusly then why would the same seed ever be called an Acorn? Especially since the seed is not from a corn species of flora as the name acorn would imply. Error Corrector (talk) 05:19, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

See the Etymology section of the article for a discussion of how the name evolved. EricEnfermero (Talk) 05:21, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Or "oak nut"???

Does anyone actually call an acorn an "oak nut"? I've never heard that term in my life... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.246.45.143 (talk) 05:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Toxic?

I have read research suggesting acorns are toxic and research suggesting they are not toxic. The Merck Vet. Manual claims they are toxic. Growing up, I learned that they were toxic. I am unable to confirm or contradict that. While they contain oxalates (or perhaps oxalic acid?), the Chestnut contains more (obviously, variation is significant between species of oak). All this means is that there SHOULD be a discussion here about toxicity - either it's (human) toxicity is 'in dispute' or is 'often believed'. Some comments suggest the belief that simply because people eat acorns, they must be "safe". Uh, no. People consume alcohol and nicotine (and a variety of other poisons) and have for millennia. It turns out that folk lore is not reliable. Who knew?173.184.17.151 (talk) 08:11, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Acorn Species

I feel as if we should include the different types of acorns and describe how each oak produces a different type of acorn. The in detail descriptions of each type of acorn would add to the information of this page. Would I be able to add what oak species produce acorns and also the months of which the acorn can reach maturity? Also, may we discuss the culture of Spain and acorn-fed hogs? We can link to iberico pork, and I have sources about this. Itrauger (talk) 22:53, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Unable to link language (german)

Cant link the german article since its not about the fruit alone but about the tree. Please help. How to fix this?

German article and section: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichen#Eicheln

Error:

Could not save due to an error.

The link dewiki:Eichen is already used by Item Q12004. You may remove it from Q12004 if it does not belong there or merge the Items if they are about the exact same topic.

Site link dewiki:Eichen is already used by item Q12004. Perhaps the items should be merged. Ask at d:Wikidata:Interwiki conflicts if you believe that they should not be merged.

Eheran (talk) 23:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Link #14 is not right

The link to the nutritional analysis links to a website that does not have anything related to acorn flour nutrition. 2600:8801:DE04:9000:742E:2396:94E5:B63C (talk) 04:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Quercus robur_acorn_-_Keila.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for May 19, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-05-19. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you!  — Amakuru (talk) 08:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

The acorn is the nut of the oak tree and its close relatives, in the family Fagaceae. Acorns usually contain a seedling surrounded by two cotyledons (seedling leaves), enclosed in a tough shell known as the pericarp, and borne in a cup-shaped cupule. This acorn of the species Quercus robur (the pedunculate oak), with a length of 25 millimetres (1 inch), was photographed in Keila, Estonia.

Photograph credit: Ivar Leidus

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