Talk:BLU-82

Full of Errors

This article is full of errors and is basically worthless. As a C-130 crewmember who was involved in the COMMANDO VAULT project when the Blu 82 came out, I am not at all happy with it. To begin with, Blu 82s were not dropped by Army CH-54s. The Army originally used some M-121 10,000-pound TNT bombs that had been developed for use by the B-36 bomber. Test drops of the first Blu 82s in Vietnam were from a C-130 two years later. Army helicopters dropped a few M-121s but their use was cost prohibitive so the mission was given to the Air Force's 463rd Tactical Airlift Wing and C-130s were used. The total weight of the bomb was 15,000 pounds. The weight of the explosive component is irrelevant since the shrapnel from the casing was part of the overall explosive effect. Aerial bombs are always categorized by their actual weight, not the weight of the explosive. SamMcGowan (talk) 04:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

RTS Game

I am surprised that this was not present before , i added it in popular culture, the game is from 2003 and 2004(expansion), in which I think is the only popular games to fully feature it for purpose use. Xowets (talk) 13:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

BLU?

What does "BLU" stand for?

71.199.122.99 (talk) 00:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Bomb Live Unit Mark Sublette (talk) 00:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 00:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I marked the last sentence as dubious. This is a slurry weapon. The MOAB or the SMAW are pressure weapons or thermobaric. PETN 04:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

WRT that last sentence- http://www.megabrain.com/daisy.htm

"[...]

The day before, their target area had been rained with leaflets warning the soldiers below: "Tomorrow if you don't surrender we're going to drop on you the largest conventional weapon in the world." The Iraqis who dared to sleep that night found out the allies weren't kidding. The explosion of a Daisy Cutter looks like an atomic bomb detonating. In the southwest corner of Kuwait that night, an enormous mushroom cloud flared into the dark. Sound travels for miles in the barren desert, and soon Iraqi radio nets along the border crackled with traffic. Col. Mike Samuel, Schwarzkopf's special-operations commander, cabled a message back to the U.S. Special Operations Command headquarters in Florida: "We're not too sure how you say 'Jesus Christ' in Iraqi." A British SAS commando team on a secret reconnaissance mission near the explosion frantically radioed back to its headquarters: "Sir, the blokes have just nuked Kuwait!"

The next day a Combat Talon swept over the bomb site for another leaflet drop with a follow-up message: "You have just been hit with the largest conventional bomb in the world. More are on the way." The victims below didn't need much more convincing. The day after the BLU-82 attack, an Iraqi battalion commander and his staff raced across the border to surrender. Among the defectors was the commander's intelligence officer, clutching maps of the minefields along the Kuwait border. The intelligence bonanza enabled Central Command officers to pick out the gaps and weak spots in the mine defenses. When the ground war began Marine and allied forces breached them within hours.

[...]" I'm a harvard student and one of my professors is a defense department employee at the naval war college. The way he tells the story that I believe the above user is refering to is that it was not the British but the Australian troops that having seen the mushroom cloud at a distance radioed their commanders with the message that the Americans had gone mad and started using battlefield (tactical) nukes against iraqi occupation forces. I would assume that he knows what hes talking about because he knows lots of defense department officials.

Weight

What is the weight of this device. The photo says 15,000 lb, but it is not in th earticle. The source of the weight info should be cited. Cafe Nervosa | talk 18:42, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Weight and size is quoted here [1] in the article, and note that although the factsheet states that the Daisycutter was delivered via the cargo doors of a transport aircraft it does not claim that it was too heavy to be carried on the bomb racks of bombers. The B52 will provide an example: it can carry 60,000 lbs of bombs in various configurations. These include the B41 nuclear bomb, (physically as large as the Daisycutter), and any bomb in the inventory past or present. The claim that the Daisycutter cannot be carried by current bombers needs to be substantiated or removed. Of course thare may have been other reasons why transport aircraft were used, but weight was surely not among the reasons. Brian.Burnell 16:15, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The raw weight of the BLU-82 is not the issue, as you pointed out. There are two factors that would prevent the carrying of the BLU-82 in or under a bomber such as the B-52.

1. The first issue would be how to attach the BLU-82 to the, say, B-52. The BLU-82 does not have conventional lugs nor could any conventional top mounted lugs support the weight due to the thin skin of the ordinance. BLU-82s need to be supported from the bottom (usually by a pallet). This is why it is especially well suited for cargo aircraft delivery.

2. The second issue concerns the balance in the aircraft (B-52). While it is true that the B-52 can carry 50,000 Lbs of ordnance, this ordnance must be distributed to maintain balance in the aircraft. The single largest piece of ordnance that the B-52 was able to carry was one B-53 Nuclear bomb. This only weighted 9,000 pounds and only by setting the horizontal stabilizers to their maximum deflection could the B-52 carry one (barely). Trying to balance a single piece of ordnance that weighs 15,000 pounds may put the balance of the B-52 out of limits. Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 19:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

"which is an understatement, see daisy)"

huh??? - Omegatron 03:07, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Daises are notoriously easy to cut, whereas the BLU-82 pulverizes small trees. just a bit of humor on the author's part, IMHO. ArrowmanCoder

"1991 Second Gulf War"? pretty sure it should be 1991 gulf war of 2003 Second Gulf War, not sure which though. say1988 15:36, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

1980s Iran-Iraq War = First Gulf War; 1991 Gulf War (Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait & Coalition liberation) = Second Gulf War; 2003 Gulf War (Coalition invasion to depost Hussein) = Third Gulf War

Hope this helps. Knave

• Are you really that naive? Do you have any clue how many wars have happened in or near the Persian Gulf?? Hope this helps. PETN 04:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Converted metric tons to kilograms, as the previous could be confused with short tons by American readers and others accustomed to using the short avoirdupois units. Hyuri 08:04, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

"The Air Force successfully lobbied for the development of an even larger, 30,000 lb (13,600 kg) weapon, which would be deployed from a traditional bomber". If you see the MOAB page, the actual weight of the bomb is 9800 kgs. Someone should disprove one of these weights or I will change it; it seems remarkably like Original Research. --The1exile 19:25, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

New Scientist quotes the USAF research lab as saying they are developing a 13 ton version of the MOAB. This may be where the original number came from. This is in the article at http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3495 --kfitzner, 28 Mar 2006

Much of the content of this page seems to be a mediocre re-write of this URL: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm -- 02 March 2006.

Older daisycutter?

I have read stories about WWII pilots dropping "daisy cutter" bombs which were some type of fragmentation anti-personell weapon. I remember them being something like in the 200-350 pound range, not the monster mentioned here. I think the vietnam era jungle clearer was just an adaptation of this name.

=I am watching the documentary series "Heroes of World War II with Walter Cronkite" (narrator). The narration just said that bombers dropped 2,000 pound bombs with extended nose fuses so that they would explode prior to the main body of the bomb impacting the ground. This was during the battle at Tarawa and it was used as an anti-personnel weapon. They were termed "Daisy Cutters" with Cronkite, himself, using the term..

Straight from the USAF Museums web site: the BLU-82/B was essentially a large thin-walled tank (1/4-inch steel plate) filled with a 12,600-lb. explosive "slurry" mixture. The designers optimized this bomb to clear vegetation while creating little or no crater, and it cleared landing zones about 260 feet in diameter-just right for helicopter operations. Since only cargo aircraft could carry them, C-130 crews delivered the BLU-82/B with normal parachute cargo extraction systems.

From what I've read, the "original" Daisy Cutter was a bomb dropped in Vietnam by MC-130s that was developed from leftover conventional warheads designed to be dropped from B-36 Peacemakers. 147.145.40.43 22:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I once worked with a gent who was an NCO in USAF munitions from the mid-fifties to the early seventies. He had served in Vietnam and his recollection was that the term "Daisy Cutter" applied to the actual fuse extenders - that probe you see extending out the front of the bomb - ensuring that the bomb detonates above the ground rather that on contact or after penetrating the surface. This means that maximum blast effects extend further horizontally from the point of detonation than for a bomb that detonates on or below the surface. Since little or no blast is wasted on digging a crater it does a very good job flattening trees and brush, detonating pressure-activated mines and, not incidentally, major damage to exposed targets that are not "hard" targets (bunkers, tanks, etc.). My source said that the "Daisy Cutter" term (for the fuses, not the bombs) was in use when he was new to that field and his understanding was that it originated in WW2. Hatcat 01:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

.

Yes, yes indeed, and thank you very much for that! You see, after Vietnam, Ranger Jim went to Indianhead, MD (in '69) to become an EOD Technician and that is exactly what we were taught. "Daisy cutters" were indeed the fuze extender [FYI, the term "fuse" is usually used to refer to time fuses, which consist of gunpowder in a waterproof wrapping and which are lit by a fuse lighter. Mechanical fuzes, such as are used in military ordnance, are technically called fuzes], and not the bomb sitting on top of the extender. And as I recall it, the first use of "Daisy Cutters" involved 2000 pound bombs with about a 12" extender (and yes, the extenders came in different lengths) and a "Snake Eye" Low drag/High drag tailfin assembly. The jet fighter-bomber would come over, drop the bomb(s), the High drag fins would pop out, which caused the bomb(s) to come to an abrupt stop in midair (or so it seemed to observers) and drop straight down, and we tried our damdest to flatten out and/or crawl into our helmets. And after all of the whizzes from the shrapnel and the crash of trees falling over died down, "Hey presto!", an instant 2 Huey LZ!

But that's just the "Instant LZ" example. There are other examples which I am not going to bother with, because they simply wouldn't mean a damn thing! You see, I can not cite any examples to which I was a witness, because that'd be "Original Research"! But I can post something to the National Enquirer (or some other tabloid) using a bogus screen name, and then cite that as a valid reference, yes?

Or how about citing one of the TM 9-1985-x series (some of which are still classified FOUO) or some of the TM 31-201-x series of manuals (about which you do not want to know).

Ah well and so it goes, one more time.... To use the old saying,"Don't mean nuthin'!" Ranger Jim (talk) 05:57, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I seem to remember Daisycutters are mentioned in Erich Remarque's 1929 book 'All Quiet on the Western Front'. If I'm right about this it would place the origin of the name back to WWI. I'll try and track down the reference. Ukjc (talk) 15:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

When I was in EOD, we used to call the BLU-82 the Cheeseburger (can't remember why, never made much sense) and we called the BLU-73 the Daisy Cutter. Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 19:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

The word "Daisy Cutter" was used in Vietnam long before the advent of the M-121 (where it was first applied to large bombs) or the Blu 82. It was originally used to describe cluster bombs that threw out steel balls and cut down anything they hit. SamMcGowan (talk) 04:29, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I was assigned to the 483rd Field Maintenance Squadron, later 483rd Munitions Maintenance Squadron at Cam Rahn Bay Air Base, RVN, in 1971. My job was transporting, loading and arming the BLU-82B. Everyone in Ammo and EOD called them Cheeseburgers, although the term Daisy Cutters was secondary. Our missions were primarily used to create instant landing zones for helicopters, so we installed the M1A1 2" x 38.25" Comp B explosive filled Extender and Brush Deflector between the M148 Adapter-Booster Assembly and the M904 Nose Fuse which is set to Non-Delay (instantaneous) to effect an above-ground pressure explosion. This setup gave the BLU-82B is widely known name of Daisy Cutter. The Project Commando Vault refers to the total weapons system of using the M121 10,000 lb TNT bomb or the BLU-82B 15,000 lb Slurry-filled ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminum bomb and a C-130 transport aircraft to deliver it. BLU-82s replace the older M121s which were out of production. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.134.156.9 (talk) 21:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Something Completely Different

I heard about the daisy cutter today from someone who worked in a chemical research laboratory. He said that the daisy cutter was a weapon that dispersed aerosol napalm over a large radius, then detonated, and the reason behind the "daisy cutter" nickname had less to do with the "daisies are notoriously easy to cut" rumour and more to do with the daisy-shaped crater or pattern the detonation of the bomb "cuts" into the countryside. I know nothing more, but thought it was interesting, and found some differing information here. Basseq 20:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, what he's describing is a fuel-air explosive of some sort. Straker 13:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I added a link to the USAF Museum fact sheet and removed the disputed tag as i don't see any live dispute here.--agr 13:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I fear that the Wiki is helping to continue a misconception about the term "Daisy Cutter". The BLU-82 is NOT the Daisy Cutter - this refers only to the 38" pole M904 extended fuse used to ignite the weapon for above ground bursts. The term has been bandied about by the press that obviously doesn't know that much about the weapon's nomenclature. Mark Sublette (talk) 06:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 06:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, M-121 and Blu-82 bombs were commonly referred to as "daisy cutters," but they were not the first bombs to be referred to by this name. And no, "daisy cutter" does not refer to the pipe that allowed the fuze to strike the ground prior to the bomb. FYI, the first-ever article on the M-121 and Blu-82 bombs appeared in an early issue of VIETNAM magazine - and I wrote it. It was titled "Daisy Cutters." The term was commonly used by the crews who dropped it and by the grunts who flew into the LZs after they had been dropped. SamMcGowan (talk) 04:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

No disrespect to Mr. McGowan, but I have an Air Force volume that states "This bomb is sometimes referred to as the daisy cutter; however the daisy cutter is the term used for the extended 38 inch pole used to fuse the projectile for above ground bursts." Unquote. Mark Sublette (talk) 10:27, 27 August 2010 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 10:27, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

In the recent book "Top Gun: An American History" by Dan Pederson (the guy who founded Top Gun), he also referred to the BLU-82 as "Daisy Cutter". So I think the only thing we would be able to agree about would probably be that "different units give the same name to different things". In fact... in that same book mentioned above, Dan Pederson even calls the BLU-82 "Mother of All Bombs", which is the nickname for the much-later GBU-43/B.Vcharng (talk) 09:58, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Commando Vault Article

Folks, This article appeared in COMBAT AIRCRAFT back in October 1988. The author dropped both the first M121 and the BLU-82 when they ran out of M121s. Please read it. It will straighten out a lot myths about these super heavy bombs. Note> Click the magnifying glass icon to enlarge full size.

Jack E. Hammond

Commando Vault: Page-1, Page-2, Page-3, Page-4, Page-5.

Was it really replaced by MOAB?

It current says in the lede:

The BLU-82 was retired in 2008 and replaced with the more powerful MOAB.

And in the article for the MOAB it says:

Since none of those are known to have been used as of early 2007, the U.S. inventory of GBU-43/B presumably remains at approximately 15.

So they replaced it with something they apparently don't have many of? Also, it says only 225 of the Blue-82s were ever constructed, even though they have been used since the Vietnam War which ended in 1975. So in 33 years they only constructed 225 of them, then replaced them with a new bomb created in 2003 which they only made 15 of other than perhaps some used in testing. Dream Focus 00:57, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Featured in "Outbreak" (1995)

Im quite sure this was the bomb used at the begining of this flick: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114069/ Anyone else remember it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.146.98 (talk) 22:57, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on BLU-82. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070124145412/http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1013 to http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1013

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:25, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on BLU-82. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060907001824/http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/dod_brief117.htm to http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/dod_brief117.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110405201818/http://www.daisycutter.es/ to http://www.daisycutter.es/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:29, 22 December 2017 (UTC)