Talk:Whole note

Length

Its length is equal to four beats in 4/4 time, or more generally, the bottom number of the time signature if >= the top number.

What does this mean? A whole note is always equal to one "note", whether it's 4 quarter notes, 8 eighth notes, etc., but what does "if >= top number" mean?? Revolver 23:41, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Who knows, it was added by User:128.196.210.172. However the whole note is often used to indicate a note last an entire measure, even if the measure is not a whole note long. According to 128.196.210.172, this is only done if some(?) condition is met.Hyacinth 23:49, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm...I'm sure I'm performed pieces with this kind of thing, but don't have photographic memory. Certainly, this is okay is "notes/bar" is ≤ 1, but generally if say, 3/2, this is given as dotted whole. (Maybe this is what the contributor meant.) I forget what on earth would be used for a note lasting duration of a 7/4 bar. Revolver 00:07, 10 April 2004 (UTC)

A whole note couldn't be used for a measure in 3/2 or such because it would be unclear whether it was then an entire measure, or the standard length (4 quarter notes, or whatever). I think this is what was originally meant. And for 7/4, a double-dotted whole note could be used for the entire measure Mairi 05:00, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

In 4/4 time, a breve is worth four beats, however it is also used in 3/4 time as a three beat note. I don't know why this is, but it's what I was taught when I was studying music. The original statement is nonsense, as were the bottom number greater than the top, eg. 2/4, it could not represent four beats, as then the bar line would fall in the middle of the note - instead the note would be written as two tied minims. JiMternet 22:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

No, for 3/4 time you use a dotted minim for the whole measure and for 2/4 you use a minim for the whole measure. It's with the rests that you use a whole rest for a whole measure. --116.14.34.220 (talk) 05:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

To add even more confusion the term "whole note" is actually half a breve, thus the word semibreve.

How is that confusing? — Mütze 12:34, 26 July 2006 (etc)

Why is this at Whole Note, not Semibreve, which is the correct term for it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.206.106 (talk) 08:02, 15 August 2007

Because Wikipedia is filled with idiotic self-important Americans, who seem to think that only their terminology is correct. 88.104.243.200 (talk) 15:59, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The American and German terms for note values are strictly logical, referring directly to their musical function. The French and Italian terms, referring to the physical appearance of the note values, are not strictly logical but nevertheless reasonable. The British terms, in contradistinction, are illogical in that they have nothing to with musical function and unreasonable in that neither do they have anything to do with appearance. They do have an historical basis, but since that history is the history of notation systems incompatible with the modern system, clinging to these terms is never going to seem sensible to someone who is not British. Your dispute is not merely with the Americans; it is also with the Germans, French, and Italians. You might also notice that Americans greatly outnumber the British which necessarily makes ‘’semi-breve” a minority usage. If you were honest with yourself, you would admit to yourself that the only reason you prefer the British terms is that these are the terms most familiar to you, which is merely an accident of your upbringing. You are free to continue to use them yourself, but don’t expect anyone with either a different upbringing or the faculty of objective thought to want to adopt them. TheScotch (talk) 01:40, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Note length

a note can go for even longer if it is held down or shaked Shouldn't the article say how the whole note can cover the entire measure for other time signatures (not 5/4, I know it's already in there)? I know that the whole note can be equal to a few other amounts of time. 99.254.204.28 (talk) 23:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

”Held down or shaked”? You mean mugged? (Note values are relative. The absolute duration of a pitch is irrelevant.) TheScotch (talk) 04:07, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Number of beats

Are there any examples of a "whole note" lasting other than exactly 4 beats? If not, we can move out the typical sentence from the lede.

I'd also like to mention this:

• The most basic note is called the whole note because ... it lasts a whole measure [in common time].

I'll wait a while, and if there are no objections I'll make the change. --Uncle Ed (talk) 20:30, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

References

Whole Notes and Time Signatures: Yes, there is much confusion on this topic- "The Whole Note", just like all other notes are always relative to the time signature. When someone says "Whole Note" the automatic default thinking is a whole note based on 4/4 time signature BUT, there are also whole notes (notated according to the time signature and also called "Whole Notes", examples below) for all the other time signatures as well. To be specific one must or should identify the time signature that a particular type of whole note is based on, i.g. (the 6 most common time signatures and their whole note designations); 2/2 whole note is notated the same as a 4/4 whole note (empty note head) and in this case for a whole rest, one would use a normal whole note rest symbol as well (the same as with 4/4 time) and not a half note rest symbol, 2/4 whole note= is 1 half note, 3/4 whole note= 1 dotted half note, 4/4 whole note is the default single whole note which equals 4 quarter notes, 6/8 whole note= 1 dotted half note and a 12/8 whole note= 1 dotted whole note. Take notice that the dotted notes also double their value when going from 1/4 notes to 1/8 notes-etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schüchtern (talk • contribs) 11:12, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Whole note and whole rest

I was taught that a whole note gets four beats - all the time. A whole rest (hanging from the second line), on the other hand, gets as many beats as there are in the measure. A half rest always lasts two beats.

The only exception to this rule is the rare occasion when a piece is written in 4/2 time. For almost every piece you'll ever see in print, the meter is 4/4 or 3/4, or some variation on the eighth note like 6/8 (less commonly 3/8 or 9/8).

A few years ago I tried to bring this all up, and ran away to avoid an edit war. It seemed to have something to do with American vs. British usage. I'm hoping to make a more complete reference article about note lengths, paying proper respect to the British system of minims, et al., but also helping out our American readers.

For a note in 4/4 time, "whole" means an entire (or 'whole') measure of beats: 4 beats. In 3/4 time, though, a whole note would be written as a dotted half note tied to a quarter note.

For a rest, "whole" always means an entire measure. That symbol hanging from the second line means "Do not play at all during this measure." The duration of a whole rest depends entirely upon the meter. In 3/4 time, the whole rest symbol means a three-beat rest.

It may be hard for the beginning music student to remember the distinction in beat count between the whole note and the whole rest, and I'd like to make it easier for the reader who comes here for the answers. --Uncle Ed (talk) 20:23, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

• Well in my experience, a whole rest can be used to denote an entire measure rest, or simply four beats. It really depends on the context. I've played musical pieces that were in, say, 6/4 where the first four beats of a measure were a rest (so a whole rest was used) and then there were actual notes for the last two beats. But then, somewhere else in the piece, where the time signature hasn't changed at all, a whole rest is used to denote an entire measure rest. 71.104.183.59 (talk) 19:53, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

We must distinguish usage in general and correct usage. Just because you may have discovered an instance of a whole rest sharing of measure of, say, 4/2, with other rests or notes doesn’t make it correct. Errors in music notation abound, and quite a few make it into published print. So how do we at Wikipedia decide what is correct? Well, we go by sources, of course. The point is that if you want the article to say that a whole rest can take up only part of a measure, you need more than an example of it doing so; you need a reputable source that specifically says that this is valid practice. TheScotch (talk) 18:02, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Additional citations

Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth (talk) 03:34, 18 February 2012 (UTC)