Talk:Water speed record

reference

I can find no web reference to ‘Skimming the Surface’ by Fred Harris and Mike Rimmer’, 2001. ISBN and publisher would be great.PeterGrecian 12:34, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Crusader

Was John Cobb's Crusader all aluminium ? [1] says it's "Built of birch plywood, reinforced by DTD 610B, a high tensile alloy produced by the British Aluminium Company".PeterGrecian 14:20, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Revised figure for Warby's record

I have that the record set by Warby was 511.11 kmh or 317.6mph based on a sign at Tumut near the Blowering Dam in NSW. What is the source for the 510kmh?--A Y Arktos 21:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Salt Water

Should there be a distinction between salt water & fresh when discussing records. I am aware of salt water records but not sure where they fit in.GrahamBould 14:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Baldwin record

Record was set in 1919, not 1909. See PBS technology timeline and others that are not copies of Wikipedia's error. Marco Thomas 16:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Lee Taylor

The article currently says, "Taylor’s body and his destroyed craft were never recovered."

Actually, Lee Taylor's body and part of the boat were recovered ten days after the accident.

Records before Alexander Graham Bell

Any reason why records before 1919 are not shown? What about steam yachts? Take a look at the chart at [2]. Cbaer 16:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I added a pre-1911 section. Was Fred K. Burnham's Dixie IV in 1911 the first internal-combustion vessel to beat a steam-powered vessel?? Also: Can someone verify that Bell/Baldwin's 1908 "powered watercraft" experiments referenced in the next paragraph used internal combustion engines? Cbaer (talk) 00:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I suspect not. I think there was a Napier-engined launch around this time too. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

sailing ships

I was just looking into speed records for sailing ships, such as Champion of the Seas (clipper) which held a distance in 24 hours record apparently from 1854 until 1984. I am not at all certain these ship articles are consistent because several seem to be claiming speed records. I have a book here on Cutty Sark which claims she was the fastest ever built though never seems to have managed such a big 24 hour run. So what about the sailing ship record holders then? Sandpiper (talk) 12:21, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

There's a difference between distance records and flat-out speed records. Sailing boats and ships still compete for distance records, although they're so limited by wind speed that I doubt their simple short-duration straight line speed has been interesting for the last hundred years, post-Turbinia.

Be wary of anything recent involving Cutty Sark too. The UK government has to justify why it has just wasted £50 million on building a new one, when comparable ships like the City of Adelaide have had to go overseas to find a way of preserving them and the Warship Trust's ships are sinking at their moorings for lack of funding. Of course, Cutty Sark is in London and this year it's Sports Day. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:51, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The book in question was written 1920 odd while she was still in the water. Speed and distance over time records are essentially the same thing, though I'd agree it makes more sense to measure a sailing ships performance over a large time. Matters are greatly complicated by the varying weather conditions which make comparisons from different occasions hard to do and the skill of the captain and crew. I seem to recall that speed records are normally measured over a course of known distance? Cutty sark seems to have managed a top speed of about 17.5 knots, which apparently was pretty fast, and according to Lubbock she was never passed by any sailing ship except when suffering adverse conditions like damage or heavy cargo. Sure, sailing ships have not been setting records for a very long time but that wasnt really the question. The question is when I want to find out how a ship like cutty sark really did compared to others - whether it really was the fastest clipper afloat as Lubbock claims - where is this information on wiki? What ships did hold the records in 1870? Sandpiper (talk) 21:45, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

It sounds like you're looking for Tea Race.

The tea clippers didn't "race" as such, but the first one to arrive in London with that year's first tea cargo was considered the winner. Apart from being the only fresh tea on the market and presumably pricing accordingly, there was a deliberate price premium placed on the cargo of the first ship home. Many side bets arose too. So the tea race was certainly important and the full results will be out there somewhere. However this sort of long-distance racing depended on a great many things: from leaving port on time, to the captain's choice of route, to the strength of the ship (and whether routes known for bad weather might be attempted) and finally the simple straight line speed of the ship. This would be far from the results that two ships might deliver in a simple sailing race around the Isle of Wight together.

Another aspect of the tea clippers was how few journeys each one made, as a first-rate ship. They mostly spent far longer afterwards on some clapped-out route watching passenger steamers roar past, or even ending up as onkers down the Baltic - old ships so leaky that they could only stay afloat when carrying a cargo of timber. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

According to this: the clipper Sovereign of the Seas is known to have once achieved 22 knots and the clipper Champion of the Seas once logged 465 nm in one day for an average of 19 knots over 24 hours. That's significantly better then the Sark. Nwilde (talk) 02:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

References

Quicksilver - Not a Neutral Point of View

In the Quicksilver section there is a paragraph publicising the bankruptcy of the original company added by an anonymous user on 28/05/2009, shortly after the bankruptcy was declared. The original entry predicted the effective end of the Quicksilver project as a normal consequence of the declaration.

The current paragraph notes that the project continues but with "Companies house return shows the company have very little in assets. One Director and a Company Sec", this edit being made on 15/09/2009 by user MasonGman, who has no userpage and made only that edit under that username.

My concern is that the paragraph is not in keeping with the neutral point of view policy, as it is intended to harm the Quicksilver project, and also frames a negative perception only to the Quicksilver project. All of the other contenders are long-gestation projects, all require sponsorship and this seems a clear attempt to unfairly damage one of the competing projects for the Water Speed Title.

I am (a) new to Wikipedia, hence I'm seeking advice rather than pre-emptively editing, and (b) a supporter of the Quicksilver project. However, I am also a supporter of other extreme engineering projects such as Bloodhound and the Bluebird Project. Given the current fatality rate of the Water Speed Record, I would rather that all the projects raised sufficient support to run a viable design that minimised the risks to the drivers.

I propose that the paragraph "In March 2009 Nigel Macknight, Managing Director of the Quicksilver company and pilot of the boat, was declared personally bankrupt and had to step down because it disqualified him from holding any company directorships.[5] At the same time the UK's Companies House issued a proposal to strike-off Quicksilver (WSR) from its register.[6] The Quicksilver WSR Ltd company was struck off on 1st Sept 2009 but the company appears to have come back as QWSR Ltd. Companies house return shows the company have very little in assets. One Director and a Company Sec" be deleted because of the violation of Neutral Point of View.

Please let me know your comments and advice about whether I am following the correct procedure or not.

Ponddipping (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Paragraph "In March 2009 Nigel Macknight, Managing Director of the Quicksilver company and pilot of the boat, was declared personally bankrupt and had to step down because it disqualified him from holding any company directorships.[5] At the same time the UK's Companies House issued a proposal to strike-off Quicksilver (WSR) from its register.[6] The Quicksilver WSR Ltd company was struck off on 1st Sept 2009 but the company appears to have come back as QWSR Ltd. Companies house return shows the company have very little in assets. One Director and a Company Sec" removed as no comments received.

Ponddipping (talk) 21:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Fatality rate

The article now says With an approximate fatality rate of 85% since 1940, the record is one of the sporting world's most hazardous competitions.. What does this mean, and what is the source of this 85% number (it isn't mentioned or explained anywhere else in the article). Does it mean that 85% of the record holders died sometime after getting the record? 85% of the record holders died while setting the record? That 85% of the people who tried to break the record, broke their neck instead? Or what? Nyh (talk)

+1. I've removed the claim. The sources weren't great and were published after the info was added here. I'm thinking this might be a case of citogenesis. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 04:48, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

It was actually listed at 50% in 2005, and upped by an anonymous editor in 2005. Ouch. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 04:53, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Fast girls

The bit on the "improved speed" needs clarification. Are those listed speeds for 2-way averages, or single passes? Or is the WSR set differently...? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 06:24, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Bluebird high speed image.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot (talk) 21:22, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Bluebird high speed image.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 15:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Record Qualifications?

The article states that there is a governing body with reference to the water speed record, but what are the qualifications?

1) Is there a required speed run from two directions, much like in the land speed record attempts? And if so: 2) At what point in time did this requirement take place, as it is likely this wasn't happening in the earliest water speed record attempts. 3) Is there a distance requirement? 4) Does the death of the boat pilot negate the record attempt, such as John Cobb's attempt in 1952? Or: 5) Was that attempt by John Cobb in 1952 not official due to not reaching a specific distance (see 3)? 6) At what point in time did the Union Internationale Motonautique (UIM) begin officially ratifying records, what is their history within the water speed record "business" so to speak?

This article could be greatly improved if a lot of these questions are answered. Sometimes I skim a little too fast, I did not see the answers within, if they are in the article let me know. Thanks! 2600:8804:80:2280:E87B:67FC:36A:BFBB (talk) 04:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. Wikipedia is edited by volunteers so any changes are done by people when they have time, knowledge of the subject, interest to do the edits. See WP:DIY and maybe you can do the work and improve the article. Thanks. Robynthehode (talk) 08:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

"Feiseen" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Feiseen. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 27#Feiseen until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. FozzieHey (talk) 17:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

See also List of world records in rowing

This article includes absolute water speed records and water speed records by human propulsion. I suggest the 'see also' section include a link to List of world records in rowing.--Darrelljon (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I really don't see the similarities, no records on this list have anything to do with rowing. The only similarity I can see is that they both take place on water? FozzieHey (talk) 20:37, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Display order priority of SI units and non-SI units

How about the priority of SI units and non-SI units? --Angerdan (talk) 14:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Jules Fischer

He was not an American but Belgian. https://www.earlyaviators.com/efischer.htm Year of birth unknown. He died in 1934. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.69.234.65 (talk) 21:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Knots as primary unit

I'd do it (Template:Convert can do multiple target units), but it's a lot of tedious search and replace, which sucks manually (and is error-prone), and I've never written a Wikipedia bot (and a one-shot bot is stupid) and it probably would be reverted anyway (I can think of one reason right off the top of my head: unsourced, because a Google search for "fastest boat" showed only kph/mph numbers)

But knots is the proper primary unit still. jae (talk) 13:12, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Died from shock?

We have got

...while travelling at an estimated 338 km/h (210 mph), Crusader's front plane collapsed and the craft (instantly disintegrated. Cobb was retrieved from the water but had already died of shock

and

...at close to 306 km/h (190 mph), Verga lost control of Laura III and was thrown out into the water when the boat somersaulted. Like Cobb, he died of shock.

I'm a layman, but if you're ejected from a vehicle at 200 MPH isn't the cause of death going to be major trauma or at least injury? Shock can set in and kill quickly when you're injured, yes, but water at 200 MPH is as hard as concrete -- you're dead instantly, right?

There was no proximate ref for "shock", so I changed "died from shock" to just "died". Herostratus (talk) 21:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Caspian Sea Monster

What is the status of the Caspian Sea Monster within this context? According to the sources used in its article, its maximum operational speed was 270 knots (within 6 kt of Warby's record), and the highest speed recorded was between 300 and 350 knots. If ground-effect vehicles are counted as watercraft, this would this would make it either the fastest or second fastest depending on the measurement used. Marisauna (talk) 20:03, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

It's not a watercraft. Also the records aren't gained by 'being the fastest', but by being the fastest to complete an official timed course, when observed by official observers. On both these counts, it's outside this article. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)