Talk:Buddhism in the West

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Non-sectarian

"non-sectarian" is ommitted from "an attempt at creating a new style of non-sectarian Buddhist practice".

I think this statement is popular in FWBO. They claim that their movement is "non-sectarian", which is funny given that they are a sect. It was also used to accuse traditional buddhist school of sectarianism. Funny thing is that FWBO is accused of this tendency as well.

I think non-sectarian movement should be attributed to organisation such as the World Fellowship of Buddhism, which is not a school or doctrine of buddhism.

Added "non-demoninational" to its more proper place, in the paragraph talking about sects. Ashibaka tock 21:18, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Western Buddhism

It is confusing title. It could refere to denomination unique to the west as well as buddhism in the west. I will rename the article as "Buddhism in the West". "Western Buddhism" can be dealt in a separate section. Vapour

It seems to me this article substitutes in the modern era 'Western' for 'American'. I have had quite a few discussions of the fact that Zen seems to have been slow to get established in Britain despite its apparent compatability. Though I have no evidence, it seemed a strong hypothesis that this was to do with the Western image of Buddhism having been shaped by experience of the British Empire and Theosophy, vs the USA's image being shaped by occupation of Japan. It was noted in the discussion that Zen has been firmly established in Poland and Hungary, also parts of the West. No essential nature (talk) 21:56, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about other countries? Are we talking about West = the Americas, Europe and Africa? If so, specificaly in Latin America there has being widespread disatisfaction or disagreement about Catholicism. Some go to other Christian denominations, some (like me) go to Buddhism.--Esteban Barahona (talk) 17:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. This article is about American Buddhism. The first "Western" monks were Europeans, the Pali Text Society was founded in England i 1881! Jayarava (talk) 09:47, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

cleanup tag

It looks like someone was in the middle of rewriting the "Buddhism and Western Culture" and "Inflow of Buddhism" sections and walked away in the middle of it. The first paragraph of the Inflow section is a mess, and looks like it should be part of the previous section. Paxsimius 19:28, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Buddhism in pre-Christian Britain

This looks to me like a crackpot. Perhaps someone can check the ref to Origen. It seems highly unlikely he was talking about Buddhists. As far as I know there is no ancient Greek word for Buddhist. Peter jackson 15:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There may not being a greek word for Buddhist, but it surely influenced early the grecoroman cultures (see article on grecobuddhism). The Middle Way as "misura" (moderation) comes to mind.--Esteban Barahona (talk) 17:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen Middle Way equated with moderation formally, though in my opinion that's a common popular interpretation. Some interesting reading on the connections: Legacy of the Indo-Greeks, Greco-Buddhism, Indo-Greek Kingdom - Owlmonkey (talk) 19:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that's quite separate from Buddhism in pre-Christian Britain, which is rubbish. Peter jackson (talk) 11:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

jataka

As I noted in the relevant article, Kalila & Dimna is nothing to do with jatakas. It is a translation o the Pancatantra, a collection of fables sharing some material with the jatakas, but never presenting them as such. Which came first I don't know. Peter jackson 15:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Future Prospects" and "Commercialisation"

I tend to agree with the anonymous editor that the "Future Prospects" section and the "Commercialisation of Buddhism" section are not so good. The "Commercialisation" section seems to present a rather one-sided view, and I am removing "Future Prospects" because it is straightforwardly commentary.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 22:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed section): Future Prospects

Some recent trends in Buddhism in the West suggest that it is rapidly degenerating. One such trend is the commercialization of Buddhism, and another is the loss of some of its extraordinary intellectual and contemplative context. If these trends dominate, Buddhism runs the danger of losing its integrity in the West and being totally assimilated into an amorphous New Age culture.^[1]

Western Buddhism lol

being a vegetarian, being an environmentalist, and sitting on the floor cross legged while saying "Om" all while being antitheistic doesn't make you a buddhist. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 20:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some additional information on Western Buddhist Movement

[http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ynonice.htm Traktung Rinpoche on Dissent in Buddhism,

a Revolt against Niceness] has to be inserted somehow.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.87.154 (talk) 13:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

American Buddhism Conference Has there been one of them only? http://www.buddhistethics.org/5/preb2.html, http://www.americanbuddhistcongress.org/monasticarticle.htm, http://eventful.com/denver/events/buddhist-leadership-conference-celebration-american-/E0-001-022429623-5, http://www.meetup.com/Friends-of-American-Buddhism/calendar/10601238/, http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tsomo/conferences/clairmont_conf.html,

are they really different?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.204.228 (talk) 08:13, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Traktung Rinpoche himself is an American in this life, as I have come to know right now. [1]

Austerlitz -- 88.75.194.60 (talk) 17:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

link added

I added a link to a paper / public talk by Jay Garfield, a philosophy professor at different universities, which investigates the subject matter: Buddhism in the West. --91.22.182.141 (talk) 11:37, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scandals

This section referred to a former wikisection about Sex Scandals in Buddhism that has already been removed by the Wikipedia editors. The content was not presented in a neutral format. There was clearly an assumption on the part of the author/s that any relationship between a Buddhist teacher and a student is abusive. However, consensual sexual relationships between adults are not necessarily abusive and commentary about the personal lives of Buddhist teachers in forums like Wikipedia is not always necessary. The personal lives of these teachers are already dealt with on their personal pages, it does not serve any legitimate purpose to present it on this page in a much less thorough, more biased way. --Mekinna1 (talk) 19:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To my opinion, mention of these scandals is relevant, but I agree that the section you deleted was fragmentary. There is a difference between "consensual sexual relationships between adults" and [sexual] "relationship between a Buddhist teacher and a student". It is no coincidence that many Zen-groups have articulated rules of conduct for the interactions between teachers and students. This is a result of several scandals that have appeared throughout the years, and betrayed the trust of many Zen-students. That these scandals were possible, does have to do with the lack of institutions, a lack of interest (as far as I can see) in and knowledge of the institutional an cultural backgrounds of the Buddhist traditions, and the dependence on charismatic authority. See the writings of Stuart Lachs.

On the other hand, looking at the disputes going on on several pages on Buddhist teachers, it's clear that this is a delicate matter, both for critics and apologists. So careful proceeding is indeed needed. Joshua Jonathan (talk) 06:51, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest to put the section back, but in an altered version:

===Charismatic authority===

A number of groups and individuals have been implicated in scandals. Sandra Bell has analysed the scandals at Vajradhatu and the San Francisco Zen Center and concluded that these kinds of scandals are

... most likely to occur in organisations that are in transition between the pure forms of charismatic authority that brought them into being and more rational, corporate forms of organization".^[2]

But she also warns that

... relations between individual meditation teachers and their students continue to retain inherent, and potentially disruptive, charismatic qualities".^[3]

Robert Sharf also mentions charisma from which institutional power is derived, and the need to balance charismatic authority with institutional authority.^[4] Elaborate analyses of these scandals are made by Stuart Lachs, who mentions the uncritical acceptance of religious narratives, such as lineages and dharma transmission, which aid in giving uncritical charismatic powers to teachers and leaders.^[5]^[6]^[7]^[8]^[9]

^ Tibetan Buddhism in the West: Is it working here? An Interview with Alan Wallace
^ Cite error: The named reference Prebbish was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Bell, Sandra (2002). "Scandals in Emerging Western Buddhism". In Charles S Prebish & Martin Baumann (ed.). Westward Dharma: Buddhism Beyond Asia (PDF). University of California Press. pp. 230–242. ISBN 0-520-22625-9.
^ Sharf, Robert H. (1995-C), "Sanbokyodan. Zen and the Way of the New Religions" (PDF), Japanese Journal of Religious Studies 1995 22/3-4 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
^ Lachs, Stuart (1999), Means of Authorization: Establishing Hierarchy in Ch'an /Zen Buddhism in America
^ Lachs, Stuart (Year unknown), Reply to Vladimir K. {{citation}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
^ Lachs, Stuart (2002), Richard Baker and the Myth of the Zen Roshi
^ Lachs, Stuart (2006), The Zen Master in America: Dressing the Donkey with Bells and Scarves
^ Lachs, Stuart (2011), When the Saints Go Marching In: Modern Day Zen Hagiography (PDF)

Joshua Jonathan (talk) 07:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would support the substitution of Joshua's new "Charismatic authority" section for what was there before. Johnfos (talk) 12:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Wiki Education assignment: Asian Religions in America

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Thewulk (article contribs). Peer reviewers: User20232, Wife.of.mothman.

— Assignment last updated by Ziegenbalg66 (talk) 00:35, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Tibetan Buddhism in the West: Is it working here? An Interview with Alan Wallace

[Prebbish-2] Cite error: The named reference Prebbish was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Prebish-3] Bell, Sandra (2002). "Scandals in Emerging Western Buddhism". In Charles S Prebish & Martin Baumann (ed.). Westward Dharma: Buddhism Beyond Asia (PDF). University of California Press. pp. 230–242. ISBN 0-520-22625-9.

[4] Sharf, Robert H. (1995-C), "Sanbokyodan. Zen and the Way of the New Religions" (PDF), Japanese Journal of Religious Studies 1995 22/3-4 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)

[5] Lachs, Stuart (1999), Means of Authorization: Establishing Hierarchy in Ch'an /Zen Buddhism in America

[6] Lachs, Stuart (Year unknown), Reply to Vladimir K. {{citation}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)

[7] Lachs, Stuart (2002), Richard Baker and the Myth of the Zen Roshi

[8] Lachs, Stuart (2006), The Zen Master in America: Dressing the Donkey with Bells and Scarves

[9] Lachs, Stuart (2011), When the Saints Go Marching In: Modern Day Zen Hagiography (PDF)

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