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Southeast Asia & Muslim world

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I just inserted some information about the use of the rebab in Southeast Asian music. Someone needs to put in descriptions of the construction of the instrument and its size and musical functions in other parts of the Muslim world.

Michael (Saturday, May 28, 2005, 12:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time [GMT -5 hours])

Originated in Afghanistan !!?

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The rebab (also rebap, rabab, rebeb, rababah, al-rababa) is a string instrument which originated in Afghanistan

This is the first time I hear this, I need some solid evidence to accept this. Seems to me like a nationalistic propaganda here ! --Khalid hassani 21:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Often considered?

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In Indonesian gamelan music, the rebab is often considered not to be part of the core of gongs, metallophones, and drums but, rather, a vocal-style instrument that does not have to conform to the scale of the exact-pitched core gamelan instruments, and can also be played in relatively free time,

Often considered? I thought ipso facto that's what it was, clearly not part of percussion, obviously a vocal type instrument, and consequently following rules other than the rules of the bulk of the orchestra. Wondering how the existing statement is supportable. Seems counterintuitive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ladarzak (talk • contribs) 20:58, 17 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, you're right, it was waffling language, and my fault, I'm afraid. I cleaned it up some (and added some); is this better? Rigadoun (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

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Discussion of the infobox that just showed up is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musical Instruments. __Just plain Bill (talk) 23:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Camels

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The story about camels may be enlightening, but would someone please write it more clearly? (When drums stop, very bad is not particularly descriptive.) Thanks in advance. Cema (talk) 06:44, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's gone for now. The cutesy punchline quote, "after drums stop, very bad" (because then comes bass solo) isn't really relevant to this article. __Just plain Bill (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed rubab -> rebab merge

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Posting here to oppose a merge of Rubab into Rebab. Though sharing an etymological background, the playing methods (bowed vs. plucked), repertory, and musical tradition are extremely distinct. You could practically make a better case for merging with sarod. Further, rubab covers Afghan, Tajki, and Pamiri versions, so is pretty broad on its own without lumping in with a dozen other forms and traditions. MatthewVanitas (talk) 03:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding. As I mentioned the difficulty is that plucked instruments are called rebab in many wiki articles (nb also Eng rebec-rubible) so that the spelling difference is not necessarily conclusive. I also note above that rebab is part of the Afghan project! Need an account of the historical relations between instruments/genres - have to account also for Indonesian rebab. Please note that we do not normally differentiate pages on basis of local usage; no pages for Jazz Trumpet in France or Romantic era pizzicato violin - maybe extreme but same principle.
I managed tanbur and tambur but then those are different instruments and still there are problems like this diff and preceding [1] - and following edits that lead to this [2] which make me offer short shrift to purely local efforts to "own" an instrument and its page since this obscures understanding of music history. (Please advise on this one)
We could go rebab on pages like Sikh music or just alter all references to rubab but I think both are misleading. Again I'd welcome your thoughts just as I respect your careful and civil work. Can you see that something-or-other ought to be done to make things better? Create page rabab and insert diffusion data? Redheylin (talk) 22:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your points, but I think that this is more than just a matter of spelling; the Afghan/Tajik/Pamiri instrument is different in construction, method, and usage. I see this as less of a "Jazz trumpet in X" vs. "Jazz trumpet in Y" issue and more of a Sitar vs. Setar vs. Setor issue: the etymological origin is identical, but the products have evolved so far apart as to be quite distinct. Though the rebab/rubab/robab/(rebec?) family of terms appears to have not standardised as far as the sitar/setar/setor issue, there appears to be at least a general trend for "re" to be the spike-fiddle in several areas, and the "ru"/"ro" to be the Af/Taj/Pam item which is very close to a sarod. I'm sure that we, those that care about the issue, can find a workable solution. I suggest that the articles remain separate, but that a tag be put at the top of both, along the lines of {{Otheruses4|the bowed instrument|the plucked instrument|Rubab}} and vice-versa. MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK I agree. Reason is that this image -->
From Sikh music
clearly shows something more like a Saraswati veena, while the Indonesian rebab IS basically a spike fiddle. We are basically looking at name transfers, much like the setar, yes, or the tanbur being a saz and not a tambur or a tambura. But this means we really have a duty to clear up the confusion, to describe the instrument-types accurately - perhaps there is some detail, like frets or whatever, that seemed significant at the time. We need a little diffusion history, the relevant bits in all of the relevant articles including sarod, as well as the tags you mention. For example, I imagine that a) the rebab mustve been a name given to a (post-Mongol) Arab new bowed instrument and this went by sea to Indonesia and had nothing to do with the Afghan-Punjabi inheritance, and b) there are sources to explain how rubab became sarod while veena became rabab. And we WILL need a rabab page, methinx. So, look, can you offer any help in putting this all together? Redheylin (talk) 22:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, going now to put the "Other uses" into Rebab and Rubab. Not totally clear on what to do about Rabab and the fact that Sikhs spell "rubab" as "rebab". But an "Other uses" tag is definitely a step in the right direction. MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There'll have to be one now, so please include it in the see alsos and tags, and I will steal some start-up material from Sikh pages. This only started because there was nowhere sensible to point rabab. The name-distinctions are slightly arbitrary but this is the only alternative to merging. Sikh use of term seems to refer to any plucked string but see [3]. Redheylin (talk) 23:27, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Goblet drum 01.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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