Talk:The Prisoner

Flower Shop Owner

As portrayed by Lucille Soong appeared in several episodes. In “A,B, or C?” - she says: “I know everything in the Village” -Sparky (talk) 22:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

allegorical?

Allegorical? in what way? I don't see it. 71.216.250.182 (talk) 02:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, it can't be viewed literally. Where is the Village? (The Baltic coast of Poland? An island in the Med? Somewhere in Kent just off the A20?) Who runs the place? And who is Number One? The last episode shows you who Number One is, and it can't be interpreted literally as part of a realistic story. So The Prisoner isn't really a thriller about an ex-spy who finds himself trapped in a bizarre prison colony. It just looks like that, until you realise there's something else going on.

Patrick McGoohan said: 'Explanation lessens what the piece was supposed to be: an allegorical conundrum for people to interpret for themselves. If one gives answers to a conundrum, it is no longer a conundrum.' But, in the same interview, he did unbend a little: 'The Village is symbolic -- we are all prisoners of this or that, many things -- each in his own Village... The series was contrived to make it *appear* that our hero was striving to be "completely free", "utterly himself". Too much of that and society would be overrun by rampant extremists and there would be anarchy. The intention was satirical. Be as free as possible within our situation, but the war is with Number One.

'To continue the allegory, Number One tries to run the Village his way if we let him. We have to challenge the so-and-so. When Hitler was an infant, someone for sure crooned over him, "What a lovely baby!" But he grew up to let Number One take over the show. Naughty boy.

'...When the final episode screened in England, a sizeable audience watched to see who Number One would be. The majority expected a James Bond-type ultimate evil villain and when they got Number 6's alter ego they were none too happy. They, the majority, felt cheated. The TV station [switchboard] was jammed with complaints. There was considerable genuine resentment, and I had to take to the hills till the dust settled.' (Carraze and Oswald 1990, p.4.)

So, in the view of its creator, The Prisoner is an allegory of the individual's place in society and the need for individual freedom balanced by the need for the individual to accept limits. Or as McGoohan sums it up, 'Be as free as possible within our situation, but the war is with Number One.' And Number One is the person that egotists tell you to look after -- he turns out to be Number Six, or at any rate the bad and dangerous person that Number Six would be if he didn't accept a few limits. McGoohan, who grew up in England during the 1940s when social responsibility was vital, individualism had to be trimmed and there was an all-too-real war with that monstrous Number One in Berlin, was attacking the self-indulgent 'Me philosophy' that was nascent in the 1960s and pretty much took over in the 1970s and is still prevalent. To that extent, The Prisoner can be seen as prophetic. (It could also be seen as reactionary, by those of a Number One mindset.) And it can be argued that McGoohan became too much of a Number One during production of The Prisoner, that his hastily-written final episodes were self-indulgent and failed to respect the audience properly, and that that's why the pay-off didn't work and everybody was just annoyed or baffled. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:28, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

The series was seven episode spy thriller as to why a man resigned taking elements from Danger Man such as the catch phrase I'm obliged. Normal practice, and still is, in the UK was to produce all episodes before broadcast and six episodes were in the can. Normal practice in American was to begin broadcast as soon as a few episodes were available. They liked what they saw and ordered more. Episode six being the penultimate episode was held over. The Americans did not like what they were getting and pulled the plug leaving McGoohan to write the final episode in continuation of episode six hence the Leo McKern shaving scene. Far too much is written about this series and hidden meanings. Only Shakespeare and the Bible has had more study. REVUpminster (talk) 18:36, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

No, it was a bit different from that. McGoohan never intended the show to be merely a spy thriller and he conceived it as a one-off 'serial' of seven episodes. Lew Grade said he needed 26 episodes to sell the show in America -- that would mean two seasons of a normal British drama series, the same sort of run that Department S had -- so McGoohan went ahead with that, but they couldn't think of enough stories to pad it out, and shortly after the first 13 episodes (the normal run of one season of a British TV drama in those days) were completed, with a few episodes of the planned second series in production, Lew Grade decided the whole thing had lost its way and pulled the plug, saying it must end at Episode 17. This was quite sudden and McGoohan (the only person who knew the overall plan, because he wasn't following George Markstein's more realistic scenario) had to write the final episode over a single weekend. Alexis Kanner, who McGoohan had made friends with after he played 'The Kid' in the Living In Harmony episode (and who reappeared as the hippie in the final episode), suggested, 'I know! He pulls off Number One's mask and -- it's Lew Grade!' Not surprisingly, they didn't actually go with that. In any case, McGoohan's plan was always that Number One should turn out to be Number Six (because the self is the ultimate jailer). McGoohan was much impressed by McKern in The Chimes of Big Ben episode and always wanted to use him again, so he was brought back for the Once Upon A Time episode, which, after the cancellation, McGoohan decided to place in the running order as the penultimate episode, leading on to Fall Out. A year had passed since the filming of Once Upon A Time and McKern no longer had a beard and didn't want a false one, hence the shaving scene. Khamba Tendal (talk) 21:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I would add McGoohan was the highest paid actor in the UK earning more than Roger (The Saint) Moore and could effectively dictate terms.REVUpminster (talk) 18:40, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Untrue. The CBS Autumn press release of October 1966 confirmed that a 17 episode series called 'The Prisoner' had been purchased for summer 68. The whole 'the plug was pulled at the last minute' thing is fan-invented urban myth. It was 17 episodes from quite early on. 89.168.196.221 (talk) 13:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

That indeed is why Lew Grade let him make the show. Khamba Tendal (talk) 21:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Every episode told the viewer who was number one "Who is number one? You are, number six"REVUpminster (talk) 19:49, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that has been noted in print before now. Khamba Tendal (talk) 21:14, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

No, there is no comma, and the sequence was scripted and performed exactly to avoid such punctuation, as confirmed by the voiceover artist who recorded the sequence, as per the info at https://www.theunmutual.co.uk/comma.htm 89.168.196.221 (talk) 12:56, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Why does that not appear in the actual article? I have literally never seen an episode of the series; "Who is number one? You are, number six" is pretty much the only thing I know about it, but the article doesn't reference it at _all_?

People's numbers

The article mentions some people's numbers being in the low 100s. Checkmate, in control, has one in the 200s.

Also, does it seem that the great majority of numbers are even? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:47, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I think people read too much into a series where episodes were produced every 10 days. Only the Bible has had every nuance and sentence explored in more detail than The Prisoner.REVUpminster (talk) 17:06, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Casting

The series uses the same people in multiple roles. It is far more confusing than the article suggests. For instance, Leo McKern, who was #2 in the second episode, makes a brief appearance at a party scene in episode #3. Nadia Grey also makes a cameo. I'm sure this was intentional. When I first watched this on TV many years ago, I was always confused about what was happening and who was doing it. There is not enough time to figure it out and it doesn't matter anyway. Wastrel Way (talk) 01:16, 29 August 2022 (UTC) Eric

I am sure there was a deliberate attempt to confuse. One episode implies that the Village is somewhere in the Baltic. Another implies that it is on the coast of Portugal. LynwoodF (talk) 10:29, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

McKern does not appear in episode 3, it's a different actor who just happens to have a beard and is a regular background artist in ITC series and appears as a Village operative in other episodes. 89.168.196.221 (talk) 12:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Citations for Alternative Ending

I’ve added citation needed tags for three claims made in the Alternative Ending section.

I have reviewed the video cited (DreamWatch 94 highlights VHS), and it does include a segment with James Follett outlining Markstein’s explanation for the Village.

However, there is no indication in that video that Follett and Markstein came up with that narrative together. In fact, the story relayed by Follett in the video explicitly says that this was something Markstein told him

There is also nothing in the video which suggests that Markstein cooked up this ending many years after the series finished.

Finally, there is nothing in the video which says that this is why Number Six is also Number One.

If there are known citations for these additional claims, could these be added (other than the oblique ‘in his book…’)

Otherwise, if these claims are reliant on the DreamWatch video as the citation, they should be removed as they are not supported by that citation. 109.153.29.160 (talk) 22:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Further, I’m unpersuaded that the obliquely referenced book exists. Looking at the history, the reference to the mystery book was part of a very opinionated set of edits (much of which has been subsequently reverted) by someone apparently motivated to undermine the Markstein ending. There is also no reference to Follett having written a book on Markstein on Follett’s own entry. 109.153.29.160 (talk) 22:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)