Talk:Kong Hee

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Edofedinburgh 00:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• If good points is also mentioned, why delete a negative point about Kong hee? The leaving of his former Anglican Church is cited in that widely-published magazine. There's no question about that vaildity. Both side of views must be represented, but it's seemed bias towards one side & hence POV.

How to NPOV'ed on these points:

Tried my best to NPOV'ed it:

• "an uncompromising" message on "Godly character and Holiness" (that was not mine)

strongly on promoting character and Charismatic Christianity.

• leaving his Anglican Church because of "some disagreements with the Anglican Church" (this was mine)

leaving his Anglican Church because of disputes between the Anglican Church and himself on both sides.

Oh ya, removed POV tag (Not "NPOV" tag, Excuse my typo)

Removed paragraph

I've just moved the following pragraph here (after deleting it and having it reinserted):

"According to its critics, they pointed out in an article¹ that Rev. Kong Hee spoke of leaving his former Anglican Church as an ordained deacon in his early days because of disputes between the Anglican Church and himself on both sides."

My first problem is what it means, but I think that I can sort that out; it's either:

"It has been claimed that Kong Hee has said that he had thought of leaving the Anglican Church when he was a young ordained deacon because of disputes between him and the Church.¹"

or it's:

"It has been claimed that Kong Hee has said that he left the Anglican Church when he was a young ordained deacon because of disputes between him and the Church.¹"

Whichever it is, so what? What significance is this supposed to have? Moreover, what disputes? If this has any significance, it's presumably the nature of the disputes that matters. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Go verify these, somebody perhaps somebody that may have more resources than I had a while ago

Doctor title

According to Doctor of Theology, it is "not customary" to use the title Dr. (Doctor) for Th.D holder. Is there any different view on this? --Vsion 07:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

CHC website does not use Dr., it just use Rev. Kong Hee. We should follow the proper title of his. Use the standards of Doctor of Theology, some ministries of CHC uses doctor and some do not. I would like to repeat myself again, just follow what the official manner is. --Terence Ong 13:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

See also

What's the rational for linking to those under "See also"? If there is relevance, the name should appear under the main article section.

AfD discussion

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kong Hee  (aeropagitica)  (talk)  15:23, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Citations

There are some facts and figures that need to be cited, particularly the church attendance, the reach of his show and what he has done. - 218.186.9.5 06:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Needs more third party sources. - 222.164.82.241 09:21, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

There are already citations from the Charisma Magazine and Ministries Today Magazine. Which particular area or figures in the article needs to be cited with third party sources?

Jing13 aka Mata 04:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of "Notability Tag"

Bulk of the article is talking about Kong Hee's education, positions held etc. I do not see a tag for "Notability".

Other then using the web page of City Harvest Church (Kong Hee being the Church Founder) as sources, Charisma Magazine and Ministries Today Magazine has also been quoted.

121.6.86.90 13:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:KongHee 2006.jpg

Image:KongHee 2006.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Point of clarification of Kong Hee's article on Wikipedia

Chanjcv (talk) 07:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

hello. I'm new here so pls forgive me if I accidentally offend anybody..

I just want to clarify a point from this article. Under the "Life" section, 7th Paragraph, it refers to Kong Hee's stand on masturbation.

"Recently, Kong Hee states his position that “In marriage is it okay for one to masturbate the other? Yes, as long as it promotes oneness between a couple … But if you are someone who masturbates in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.” [9] This implies of his uncertain position on whether masturbation is sin in Christian's sense."

The source of this quote is obviously from his blog, as the exact words are being used both on his blog as well as in the article, paragraph 8 of his blog post. [1]

"What about those who are not averse to it? Mark Driscoll, the preaching pastor at the 7,500-member Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, was quoted as having said this in one of his video lectures: “In marriage is it okay for one to masturbate the other? Yes, as long as it promotes oneness between a couple … But if you are someone who masturbates in a nonaddictive, non-lustful, non-pornographic way and you are single, it is not a sin.”"

As you can see from the comparison, there is quite a difference between Kong Hee stating his position (the Wiki Article) v.s. using a quote by Mark Driscoll as a quote for a point of reference (Kong Hee's blog).

As such, I would just like to question the clarity of what was being post onto wiki about that particular paragraph in light of the actual posting of Kong Hee on his blog. Thanks.

Allegations of Plagiarism

Kong Hee is accused of plagiarism by an "anonymous blogger"? How is that considered a reliable source? Further, the line "Neither Kong Hee nor City Harvest Church has refuted the allegations to date" is question begging. SQGibbon (talk) 06:30, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

To Sg Blogger, good catch on the repeated info, but is there any source on the publisher's admitting the oversight? Please list the resource here so that when someone else tries to add it back in we can point it out to them.Zhanzhao (talk) 04:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Under Police Investigation for Misuse of Funds

(1) Hello 116.197.231.130, why this section must be removed from Kong Hee wiki article? I think you attempted to whitewash this article? Kimberry352 (talk) 10:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

(2) I recognize that both sections from Kong Hee [[2]] and CHC [[3]] are similar. Both sections seem to come with similar conclusion. Hm, what do you think whether it is appropriate to write similar sections under different entries? Should the removal of the section "Under Police Investigation for Misuse of Funds" be reverted? Pls advise/do action. Kimberry352 (talk) 10:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Can Kong Hee wiki article be semi-protected for the time being?

I see that new Wiki editors attempt to add some information that must be checked for reliability and relevance. Recently, there are many edits made including deletion and reverts to remove inaccurate/unreliable information or vandalism. I feel that Kong Hee wiki article should be semi-protected so that new editors may not be able to vandalize or add unreliable information in this wiki article. Hope to hear your comment. Thank you. Kimberry352 (talk) 08:43, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Plagiarism

Please have a look at this page: http://www.chc.org.sg/english/church.cfm

There seems to be quite a bit on Kong Hee's wiki page which read similarly to what's written on the church's official intro page. Yuyudevil 04:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Another editor previously removed a section on plagiarism some time ago[4]. As there has been new updates on this issue on today's papers (if there's a news link in the future would appreciate if someone can add that in as well), I've re-added that section. The apology by the publisher for not noticing the plagiarism is not a good reason to remove the section. Note that there was additional detail to the case (i.e. the correspondence between the authors and the reporter), which I purposely left out as it does not directly relate to the subject's plagiarism. The current version is as NPOV as I can possibly make it. Lets keep to the bare facts this time, fellow editors.Zhanzhao (talk) 02:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The physical news paper is a reliable source. But the link to the paid version of the article should be removed.Zhanzhao (talk) 10:00, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

ok, I'm fine with your corrections. SQGibbon is the one who said he couldn't see the source content. So, I got hold of it and put it on google doc. Ahnan (talk) 10:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Fund Probe

Please keep to the necessary detail and not needlessly pad the article. I.e. number people questioned only needs to be mentioned once. If no arrests have been made, the fact need not be pointed out explicitly as it understood. Same with mention of legal representation, which is common for people being investigated (see the Durai and Ming Yi who also had legal representation). Unless the mention has any special meaning (i.e. the lawyer has done anything that is notable in the context of the article).

With regards to the reverts on Feb 19 of the edits by Netizen22, please note the following: 1) It is not necessary to mention how long the investigation has taken as it is still a current event. The article does not mention that the investigation has closed, so readers can infer that investigations are still ongoing. 2) Stating the drop in membership in the section about the investigation is WEASEL wording meant to draw some correlation between the two. Unless properly referenced, this inference is OR. Anyway church membership information should go under the church's article, since it has an article of its own. 3) The section about Sun Ho's career is uncited. Please provide proper sources. Plus plrease read up on the type of prose to be used in Wikipedia. things like "but", "although", "however" should be avoided where possible.

Zhanzhao (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

questionable theological qualifications

The institutions that Kong Hee cites theological qualifications from are problematic. For one, there are no independent sources on that institution besides very very bare mentions. The "certifying institution" is questionable as well. (See Diploma_mill#Common_attributes_of_diploma_mills) I have commented out the entire section for now. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (be free) 08:23, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

You were right to do so. My own look into this also leaves me unimpressed by the subject's claim to advanced degrees. A web search turned up disturbing allegations about the organization that he says he earned them from, e.g. a claim, supported by Google Maps and public phone directories, that the address listed on the "university's" web site actually identifies the campus of a wholly unrelated, but legitimate school; that the "university" requires no defined course of study at all; that besides very extensive "credit for life experience", it awards degrees primarily by giving 4 credits for each very brief book report a candidate turns in on pretty much any Christian book at all; and that it is "certified" (not "accredited", note) by an organization that is at least as dubious as itself.

Curious, I investigated this last claim quite thoroughly, and found that among other concerns, the "certifying" organization appears to be headed by a man who himself claims a doctorate from an institution that reliable sources call a degree mill, in part because it has no paid faculty, and who, along with his wife, publicly identifies himself by the title of "Bishop", that title evidently conferred by a small "church" organization he started himself, and that seems not to be unaffiliated with any larger religious body. I have other substantive reasons, as well, but these facts alone are enough to convince me that the subject's claim to graduate degrees cannot legitimately be sustained in our article.  – OhioStandard (talk) 01:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Honorary Doctorate.

Its a bad idea to create a separate sub heading just for the honorary doctorate, so I lumped it all under one sub heading, "Educational Qualifications and Awards". It eas awarded by an educational institute. Unless so eone thinggs that belongs to a sub-heading of its own? Feel free to discuss. Zhanzhao (talk) 09:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Recent edits by NCXShawn

Note that I have undone the last 2 edits by NCXShawn, one for removing content which was properly sourced to a tertiary source (though I have updated the reference as the old one had expired). The 2nd was because it was based on info from a video form the church itself, making it a Primary Source as per WP:WPNOTRS. The 2nd part should only be re-introduced if there is a tertiary source covering it. Zhanzhao (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

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Parked text

I am parking some text from the article here whilst I do some editing to improve it.

By June 2012, Kong Hee and five other members of the church were arrested by the CAD. The crossover project explained by the accused was meant to expand their congregation locally and overseas. However, the music video China Wine had no isolable religious or Christian influences. It became questionable to some church members how was the music video funded. These complaints were investigated by authorities to determine if there were misuse of church funds. All five faced multiple charges of criminal breach of trust, while three (not including Kong Hee) face multiple charges of falsifying accounts of the church. They were released on $500,000 bail initially, while each of the three counts of criminal breach of trust Kong faced involved a maximum sentence of life imprisonment with a fine. On the same day as the initial arrests, the COC released a press statement detailing the results of its inquiry. It stated that there were misconduct and mismanagement in the administration of the charity. There were irregularities of at least $23 million in the charity's funds, which were used to finance Sun Ho's secular music career. There was also a concerted effort to conceal this movement of funds from stakeholders. Eight members were suspended under the Charities Act from their duties with the charity including the five arrested, Sun Ho and two others. The judge denied an appeal by the defence, stating that the six had been dishonest in the use of the money by using Xtron as a "shell company" to enable the misuse of church funds.

SmilingFace (talk) 11:01, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

References

Cleanup April 2016

I have cleaned up the section relating to the corruption case and fixed some link rot so it is well referenced, which is important under WP:BLP. There is plenty more that could be done, including possibly using some of the parked text above, but I'll probably leave that to others. Most of this work is also applicable to the other article on the corruption case if someone wants to transfer it over. Hopefully what I've done is an improvement! SmilingFace (talk) 11:32, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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