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Talk:Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports

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Admiral Robert Blake

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Was Robert Blake (admiral) really Warden from 1656-1660? He died 1657...

Commoners

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Were only three Lords Warden commoners? Bear in mind that even HRH Prince William of Wales is technically a commoner —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fiachra10003 (talk • contribs) 05:49, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are far more than 3 commoners on the list. Leaving out those not installed and Lord North who only became a peer towards the end of his time as Lord Warden, it is 3 since 1691 but there are several before this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.144.32 (talk) 15:29, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to delete the commoners sentence. Newystats (talk) 03:43, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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John Beaumont

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Why is a link given to an empty page John Beaumont (soldier) when John Beaumont (MP) is the same person? 83.85.10.162 (talk) 11:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC) Fluff[reply]

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Proposal to merge Wardens of the Coast with this article

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Hi,

I think that the page Wardens of the Coast should be merged with this page, Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, because Wardens of the Coast is a stub and this page could benefit from explaining the origins by way of incorporating the Wardens of the Coast article's information into this article.

Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 08:05, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely oppose. The Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports is an extant (and extremely high) honour in the British honours system. Although it originated as just one among many Wardens of the Coast (albeit the most important one as it's the one that faced France), there's very little overlap. Trying to shoehorn it into the article on the medieval Wardens would overwhelm the parent article; it would be akin to trying to merge Monarchy of the United Kingdom into Angevin Empire. ‑ Iridescent 08:57, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, how much more information can be added to the Wardens of the Coast article? If it can be expanded significantly enough to no longer count as a stub, then it warrants not merging. The beginning of this article mentions that the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports position came into being originally as "Keeper of the Coast", which is wikilinked as Wardens of the Coast, so it makes sense to me that we could merge that information into this article in a section at the beginning of this article (before the current first section), perhaps called "History" or something (and clean up the text of the Wardens of the Coast article). DesertPipeline (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose merging with this article. A better home for this info would be as a history section in the Vice-Admiral of the Coast article, as that is the successor office. Opera hat (talk) 16:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think it's best maintained as a separate article. Murray's "Constitutional History of the Cinque Ports" talks about these offices at some length, and describes them as having duties largely exercised in times of war, rather than general administrative ones. (And the terms used for the commission for the "Keepers of the Coast" in Sussex and Kent in 1295 was used for the Wardens of the March in 1296, so that assertion in the article is not quite as far-fetched as I initially thought it.) Only later did the general day-to-day administration of the Cinque Ports coalesce about the Warden of the Cinque Ports. I don't think it will ever be a long article, but a good historian could certainly expand it beyond what's there now. Choess (talk) 18:32, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A response to both Opera hat and Choess: You bring up good points. I'm not very familiar with this topic and therefore my merge proposal may not be in the best interest. I will let this run for a little longer to see if anyone else has a view on it, but the indicator is definitely at 'don't move' right now. DesertPipeline (talk) 04:58, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@DesertPipeline: No worries. This is why we discuss things, and it is a very difficult topic to expand. I probably would have taken Opera hat's position about merging it with Vice-Admiral of the Coast had I not stumbled across the passage in Warren describing the Wardens (the contemporary term in Latin was "Custodes [maris]") and making them seem relatively unique. Merging in small articles when there's a larger one that can adequately cover the sub-topic is good house-keeping, in general. Choess (talk) 14:13, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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